A Word of Caution.... Stuck Throttle Body

[fjpikul]

Jay invented the inlet tube rings, which I believe, you can no longer get. I have a set in my car to keep the inlet tube from collapsing. He included a picture of the inlet tube collapsing at high RPM. They are split, stainless steel rings covered with teflon. I put them in (actually the GT Guys put them in when I swapped to the Borla) and have forgotten them years ago.

 

[STORMCAT]

Dear KittyCat, remember when I posted about the strange new filters I got and the poor fit on one side? I had to trim the foam edge aout 1/8 inch to get it to seat correctly. Now I would NEVER doubt your mechanical abilities, but do you think it might have been a poor fitting filter and the excess caused the edge to shear off due to heat? Glad there was no apparent permanent damage. You weren't hot rodding in the tunnel again, were you?

Hey Frank,
I do remember your post and I was happy when I put these in because they fit perfectly in the channels. No cutting or trimming.,,, and yes I was going thru the tunnel when this happened.

The passenger didn't know what the heck was going on because it was loud and noisy. He did not know what happed until we coasted to a stop . He said what was that blue light flashing on your dash. ( shift light hitting the rev limiter) When I explained what happened. He was a little shocked .. He commented that I the situation was handled very calmly....:wink

Brian - it would appear that deformation in that direction would only be caused by a pressure surge from the engine side of the filter, such as would occur if the engine backfired. Does this car have a standard factory tune since the filters were changed? Or do you run a modified tuning program?

This is a good conclusion. I have thought the same thing. I never heard and loud backfires or intake type explosions in the brief time these were in place. Without the gasket to hold them up they may move up and down easily ??? I have a Pulley and Tune. As noted a tune by Mr. Torrie..

Brian,
An excellent post and thanks for the pic's. I'm assuming that your filters were the recommended FORD. Have you considered using K&N's. I've had no problems with K&N what so ever, (I change them out regularly) have noticed a slight gain in power by using them vs FORD's and I've 9K+ miles on #1049.
Any Forum Members welcome to chime in with opinions FORD vs K&N.
Best,
Paul

Thanks Paul,
Yes, these were the Ford OEM filters. I installed them on Oct. 10 just before the rally. They had 1000 miles on them. I am going to consider three filters options. K & N , The Green Filters and Amsoil. I have an Amsoil filter in My SSR and it seems to work Great. One thing I like about the Amsoil is they are non oil type filters.

After saying all that. I had some other paper filters that I bought when I bought the Mann oil Filters on line. They are a pleated paper type. The Perimeter gasket is that orange material. Not the black like the Ford filters. I will use them in the interim.

I looked at the failed filters again today. I really think this is just an isolated case of a bad rubber mix or cure. This was the 3rd set of filters I put in the car. The other two sets acquired about 5000 mile each and other than being dirty there were no gasket issues.

 

[RALPHIE]

This is a good conclusion. I have thought the same thing. I never heard and loud backfires or intake type explosions in the brief time these were in place.

With the intercooler and supercharger causing flow resistance, the pressure pulse of a backfire may be elongated due to these conductance limitations. This may prevent any noise from occurring, yet still let the pressure force gas flow in the reverse direction. Of course, this is speculation....

 

[BlackICE]

With the intercooler and supercharger causing flow resistance, the pressure pulse of a backfire may be elongated due to these conductance limitations. This may prevent any noise from occurring, yet still let the pressure force gas flow in the reverse direction. Of course, this is speculation....

Since the OEM supercharger a screw type, wouldn't pushing enough airflow to damage the filters be very unlikely? The air would have to leak past the tight clearances, or turn the rotors in reverse. I would look for another cause of the problem.

 

[RALPHIE]

Since the OEM supercharger a screw type, wouldn't pushing enough airflow to damage the filters be very unlikely? The air would have to leak past the tight clearances, or turn the rotors in reverse. I would look for another cause of the problem.

I tend to agree - yet it would require a pressure pulse from this side to deform the filters in the direction shown -

 

[Shadowman]

Since the OEM supercharger a screw type, wouldn't pushing enough airflow to damage the filters be very unlikely? The air would have to leak past the tight clearances, or turn the rotors in reverse. I would look for another cause of the problem.

YES ...... and yet I shared that mechanically it is plausible however I feel that there had to be at least one other contributing factor.

Furthermore in this case if only a backfire then all of the proverbial would have had to align at that moment with extreme load, perfect rotor placement, WOT, and the backfire.

Takes care

Shadowman

 

[skyrex]

Thanks for sharing Stormcat.

 

[PL510*Jeff]

I tend to agree - yet it would require a pressure pulse from this side to deform the filters in the direction shown -

Heat can "hellp" this situation faster than anything else. Cooked seals?

Just a thought.

 

[fjpikul]

I think, in the long run, we just don't recognize kitty litter.

 

[Specracer]

Not that it probably matters, but the filters that came in the car had orange rubber edges, with a yellowish paper. The motorcraft replacements that I have installed and seen are black edged, and a white element.

After saying all that. I had some other paper filters that I bought when I bought the Mann oil Filters on line. They are a pleated paper type. The Perimeter gasket is that orange material. Not the black like the Ford filters. I will use them in the interim.

 

[Neilda]

Stormcat,

That was an outstanding post and photos. I'm glad everything worked out. If this had to happen it's better that it was to one of our more technically astute members who was able to understand it, find it, fix it, document it, and photograph it for the rest of us. It'll be interesting to find out if anyone else has had their air filters come apart in this manner.

Thanks again for a great, great post.

Chip

My thoughts too. A very useful post - thanks for taking the time to let us all know....

 

[Indy GT]

Brian-

Sorry to hear about your uncommanded WOT event, but it seems like you reacted and handled it in your typical professional way. Glad you had the uneventful pull-to-the-curb outcome.

I have read the posts and considered others opinions. For what it is worth I agree with Ice and think it unlikely any cylinder back pressure could effectively work its way upstream thru the fairly deep intercooler heat exchanger, thru the screws of the Lysholm supercharger, travel back another 2 feet thru the throttle body and into the "large volume" inlet box and still retain sufficient pressure to apply a pressure differential across relatively new air filters to cause the pictured filter deformation. It is perplexing.

To me it appears the root cause of the incident is failure of the air filter perimeter gasket. Perhaps, as has been suggested, a molding problem with the perimeter seal material compounded by as Jeff identifies, engine bay heat. Disconcerting is this was a MotorCraft OE filter as I am a strong supporter of using original Ford fluids and filters (I concede oil) as they were designed and tested for our specific application.

Brian,
An excellent post and thanks for the pic's. I'm assuming that your filters were the recommended FORD. Have you considered using K&N's. I've had no problems with K&N what so ever, (I change them out regularly) have noticed a slight gain in power by using them vs FORD's and I've 9K+ miles on #1049.
Any Forum Members welcome to chime in with opinions FORD vs K&N.
Best,
Paul

Paul, not to criticize, but I am always skeptical as to anecdotal testimonials about "slight power gains" reported by users. It is impossible for anyone driving a 550hp powered car to "feel" plus or minus 6 hp or so which the manufacturing hype would lead one to believe. Decisions should be made on data collected.

I would continue to use the OE Motorcraft filters and monitor/inspect them carefully prior to initial install and frequently thereafter. Perhaps a GT team member might want to closely examine one of the failed filters to ascertain if the seal material conformed to intended properties.

 

[Pete S.]

Found this on my spring time air filter change: been doing only one a year, but may start replacing more often.

Pete S.

 

[Howard]

I'm beginning to think that the Ford gasket is reason enough to go to K&N.

Howard

 

[Beach-GT]

i THINK YOU SHOE IS ABOUT TO BLOW!

 

[STORMCAT]

Found this on my spring time air filter change: been doing only one a year, but may start replacing more often.

Pete S.

Humm.. that is where mine separated.. Maybe you had a set out of the batch that I did. I want to think it was a bad cure or rubber mix ?? You caught it in time. If it came apart you would be chasing the debris .:ack

 

[BlackICE]

Here is my solution to the OEM filters. I don't know if these are any better, but I will try them rather than using the known 2 bad OEM ones. Maybe the orange seals are better than the black seals.

 

[pe2unia]

I'm beginning to think that the Ford gasket is reason enough to go to K&N.

Howard

That's exactly what I did after first reading this thread:thumbsup

 

[STORMCAT]

Here is my solution to the OEM filters. I don't know if these are any better, but I will try them rather than using the known 2 bad OEM ones. Maybe the orange seals are better than the black seals.

I have some new paper filters like these as well..The colored rubber seems to stay more pliable that the black ??? Nice photo work Clinton .

 

[Fubar]

Disconcerting is this was a MotorCraft OE filter as I am a strong supporter of using original Ford fluids and filters (I concede oil) as they were designed and tested for our specific application.

I apologize if this derails the subject but I've never seen Indy concede anything before. Why do you no longer use OEM oil? I am about to do an oil change and would be interested in opinions about better products.