Performance power went 283 in the mile a couple days ago kennedy space center... WOW


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ChipBeck

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Gentlemen,

I don't doubt that a Ford GT can be built that will go 283 in the Mile. But it can't be done with anywhere near 1500 rear wheel horsepower. Even without the front splitter and outside mirrors, the RWHP required to hit that number would be over 2000 RWHP. So I'm calling bullshit on something here. If that 283 standing mile trap speed is correct, 1500 HP is BS. If 1500 RWHP is correct, the 283 is BS. Unless PP is operating under different laws of physics, something is amiss here.

Chip
 

BlackICE

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Nov 2, 2005
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Gentlemen,

I don't doubt that a Ford GT can be built that will go 283 in the Mile. But it can't be done with anywhere near 1500 rear wheel horsepower. Even without the front splitter and outside mirrors, the RWHP required to hit that number would be over 2000 RWHP. So I'm calling bullshit on something here. If that 283 standing mile trap speed is correct, 1500 HP is BS. If 1500 RWHP is correct, the 283 is BS. Unless PP is operating under different laws of physics, something is amiss here.

Chip
Assuming the same drag as a stock car and that when Mark McGowen did 212 that was maxed out at the claimed 550 HP, then to go 283 you would need 550*(283/212)^4, or 1746 HP. Of course that would be an a much longer course than 1 mile. So the needed HP would be more than 1746.

Lowering the drag would lower the HP needed, I would assume that Johnny's car has a lower drag than stock, but not enough to go 283 in the mile with only 1500 HP. Unless there was hurricane like tailwinds, I would agree that one or the other number is bogus.
 
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Fast Freddy

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either his speed claims are false, or his power claims are false or the track length was longer than 1 mile. since Guinness confirmed it, i bet his power claims are false just like every other racer on Pinks & Pass Time as the burnouts never lie....
 
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Xcentric

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Assuming the same drag as a stock car and that when Mark McGowen did 212 that was maxed out at the claimed 550 HP, then to go 283 you would need 550*(283/212)^4, or 1746 HP. Of course that would be an a much longer course than 1 mile. So the needed HP would be more than 1746.

Lowering the drag would lower the HP needed, I would assume that Johnny's car has a lower drag than stock, but not enough to go 283 in the mile with only 1500 HP. Unless there was hurricane like tailwinds, I would agree that one or the other number is bogus.
This is not apples to apples, because the gearing would be quite different, and presumably redlines as well.
 

BlackICE

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Nov 2, 2005
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This is not apples to apples, because the gearing would be quite different, and presumably redlines as well.
Forget to add, assuming that the gearing was optimized for the engine's powerband in both cases.
 

Fast Freddy

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from the looks of the in-cockpit vid; it looks to me like Johnny Rocket got a really good launch out of the hole with no wheelspin in any of the gears during his run. i am guessing he super glued his tires to the track by spraying a ton of VHT down the first 1/4 mile of the runway. that would be worth 5 mph right there....
 
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twobjshelbys

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Jul 26, 2010
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from the looks of the in-cockpit vid; it looks to me like Johnny Rocket got a really good launch out of the hole with no wheelspin in any of the gears during his run. i am guessing he super glued his tires to the track by spraying a ton of VHT down the first 1/4 mile of the runway. that would be worth 5 mph right there....
So what tires?

It's a "system". Tires, transaxle, engine, throttle, driver. I'm open here. It would be cool if it is real, but I too think that the laws of physics have not been repealed. I'd love to be proven wrong.
 

Accufab

Well-known member
Mar 14, 2006
142
Well, knowing what I know about going fast, the equation doesn't add up. 1500 HP wont get you to 283 mph unless the track faces downhill at a 45 degree angle. Ray's car and Mark's car make over 2000 hp. A stellar launch will only add a little to the top end speed as its all horsepower at that point. I would say that the half mile speed would have to be around 230+ mph to go 283 mph. Won't say that these guys didn't do it but the basic facts of horsepower versus drag and weight don't support the claim. 1500 HP could probably get you to 238-242 mph. That's all. So either they are making 2400 HP or they are very good at story telling.

John Mihovetz
Accufab Inc
 

FBA

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...and therein lies the truth.
 

ChipBeck

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Assuming the same drag as a stock car and that when Mark McGowen did 212 that was maxed out at the claimed 550 HP.........Of course that would be an a much longer course than 1 mile.
With an unlimited run at Nardo a stock GT went 212 but that same car in the Standing Mile would only manage about 175.

Chip
 

BlackICE

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Nov 2, 2005
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With an unlimited run at Nardo a stock GT went 212 but that same car in the Standing Mile would only manage about 175.

Chip
The Nardo car will only do 5 MPH. :lol
 

Silverbullitt

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Mar 3, 2006
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Lago Vista, TX
All of you are missing the point, set the timing equipment to KPH when no one is looking.
 

6s219

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Waxer

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The most important fact to come out of this thread is that Wizard finally proved why red is the fastest color. Had the PP GT been red their claim would be irrefutable.
 

KJD

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So I wonder if this guy is like that dude who was driving his Ford GT around in the Mexican Baha.

We all seriously doubted him but seems like he was thrashing it at least some there.

That said, the numbers don't add up and the physics seems unnatural, at least for this planet.

Like others, I hope there is a run-off one day at a neutral site with the big boys all playing!
 
Mar 15, 2006
767
I agree with John. FYI, I have worked with Johnny over the phone regarding doing some testing at NASA. And Johnny was always good to deal with. But there are just too many things that do not add up on this deal. When we do speed tests, like the one we did last week on the Texas toll road, I paid to have an independent representative from VBox USA come in to certify our speeds on GPS. And I took that a step further to make sure that the video of our runs incorporated the VBox digital speed readout during our runs. I did this as I knew that some would call BS if I didnt provide clear and irrefutable proof of our speeds.

Same deal when we operated the Houston Half Mile Shootout earlier this year. We hired the guys who run the timing lights for several open road races. They set up the distance between the lights with very precise GPS survey equipment. The distance between the lights was calibrated to within millimeters. As has been stated, if the timing lights are closer together by a few feet can result in speeds reading much higher. Events open to the public like Texas Mile etc. have the same timing light distance for all the cars running. So if a stock FGT runs 171 mph in the mile but goes out and goes 20 mph faster then everybody would be 20 mph faster.

I have no idea what Guinness does to verify that the timing lights or overall standing mile distance is correct. They probably rely on the honesty of the operators and take them at their word. I have no idea of there was an error in the equipment or operation of the system, but 283 mph in one mile is such a huge number, it would be nice to see a back-up run, independent verification from the media, in-car video of the entire run, or some other evidence that the numbers are legit. If it is a real number and run, then it is too bad that there will always be a cloud of doubt that lingers amongst the guys that Johnny was really trying to impress by going 20 mph faster than the next fastest guy.

If the numbers are not real, however they came about, then this is a very sad thing to do to the guys out there who are risking their lives, reputations and hundreds of thousands of dollars to be able to push the envelope while running real, honest and verifiable speeds that are not in dispute. Guys like Mark/Sean with the help of so many like Accufab, Shane, Kevin, etc. Also other guys like Kelly Bise who has the 263.2 mph Camaro. I am guessing that these men each spend $100k per year to run a couple of events while maintaining their cars. And that is in addition to the hundreds of thousands of dollars spent to build and test their cars.

Johnny, if you are reading this, I hope you dont take it the wrong way. I have nothing against you and you have dealt straight with me and tried to help me on car testing at NASA, though we have not run there. If your record is real then please give everyone something more than a girl from Guinness handing you a framed piece of paper or a hero video with very little footage of your actual run. The best way to shut everybody up is to show up at Texas Mile or Mojave and lay down a back-up to your "283 mph" run. Or invite the other 2 guys running in the 260's to your next event and have all 3 of the fastest cars running on the same track with same conditions, timing equipment, etc. That would settle this and you would have the respect from all racers, which I think you would really like to have. Just a few thoughts to consider.

John Hennessey

Well, knowing what I know about going fast, the equation doesn't add up. 1500 HP wont get you to 283 mph unless the track faces downhill at a 45 degree angle. Ray's car and Mark's car make over 2000 hp. A stellar launch will only add a little to the top end speed as its all horsepower at that point. I would say that the half mile speed would have to be around 230+ mph to go 283 mph. Won't say that these guys didn't do it but the basic facts of horsepower versus drag and weight don't support the claim. 1500 HP could probably get you to 238-242 mph. That's all. So either they are making 2400 HP or they are very good at story telling.

John Mihovetz
Accufab Inc
 
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the Wizard

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Jul 16, 2012
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Once upon a time it was an honor to be included in the "Who's Who" book. Later, anyone who would buy a copy at a dramatically elevated price was included. It seems to me the Guinness folks are doing the same thing now. It's all about the fee to show up to provide a "certificate". As usual, follow the money.....
 
Mar 15, 2006
767
Once upon a time it was an honor to be included in the "Who's Who" book. Later, anyone who would buy a copy at a dramatically elevated price was included. It seems to me the Guinness folks are doing the same thing now. It's all about the fee to show up to provide a "certificate". As usual, follow the money.....
It costs approx. $10k to have a Guinness adjudicator come by be present at world record event. And I do believe that they take the honesty and legitimacy of their records very seriously. But unless they send an adjudicator who has some sort of racing or auto testing / engineering background, then the person may be well intentioned but just wont have the experience to know if the data being collected is fact, fiction or fraud.
 
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the Wizard

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Jul 16, 2012
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Yeah, I agree, but that's still kind of my point...you lower your standard in one way or the other for money. Is the expectation of that fee for a single day? If so, that would imply more than just some girl with a portable printer and some fancy paper. Seems that would include some technical expertise.
 

Xcentric

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Jul 9, 2012
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Objectively, I don't see much upside for PPR to do an encore run. It seems they have accomplished a solid business objective. 1) Guinness record; 2) Slick marketing video; 3) People oooing, ahhhing, and wowing around the world on highly visible media (Top Gear, Carbuzz, etc.).

OTOH, the potential downside of an encore run is huge...anything from blowing up to finishing last...which could effectively ruin the business objective.

The controversy over his run seems to be contained among a very small number of mile enthusiasts, which is likely to have little to no effect on PPR's business, short of protesters with placards on a picket line.
 
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