BoP? Where was it?


Indy GT

Yea, I got one...too
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Jan 14, 2006
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P.S. A podium finish could have been lost, because some position lights weren't working? Double wtf?
As for the issue with the #82 Ferrari, it wasn't simply a marker light, it's the fact that the Risi team ignored a flag to make the repair. Under the rules, this clearly would have resulted in a disqualification had race officials chosen not to ignore the infraction.
Well Gary, Paul presents a good explanation above on your “Double wtf” on the Ferrari podium finish. For car identification at night, the rules state your car number and the marker position lights (indicating P1, P2 or P3 position in the car running order) must be functional. TWO of the FGTs were black flagged during the evening hours because their car number illumination was not functioning. Ford brought the cars in, fixed the signage illumination and resumed the race. A rule is a rule.

When the early morning protest on the #82 Ferrari’s marker lights was made, the race officials for some reason waited over 10 HOURS before imposing the black/orange flag requiring the Ferrari to come to the pits and fix the position lights. This flag was ignored by the Ferrari team.

Because of the refusal to pit, the sanctioning body assessed a pit drive-through penalty against the #82 Ferrari. This too was ignored by the team yet at the end of the race the three Ferrari drivers stood on the podium at second place.

Yep, Double wtf?:confused
 

Xcentric

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A rule is a rule. Eff that. A rule that has nothing to do with racing. Risi got the podium they deserved.
 

Sinovac

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A rule is a rule. Eff that. A rule that has nothing to do with racing. Risi got the podium they deserved.
I knew you were a closet Ferrarista. :lol
 

Xcentric

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I knew you were a closet Ferrarista. :lol
I keep all my gold chains, cigars, and red shoes in my closet.
 

TO AWSUM

Ford GT Owner
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Jul 4, 2007
1,396
Niceville FL
BoP is very simple to understand.

It's all about revenue for the racetracks. If there is a clear winner early in a race, the spectators get bored and leave the race early. If they leave early, then the vendors can't sell their products. If the vendors can't sell their products, they stop supporting the racetrack. The racetrack ceases to be financially sound and closes. It's that simple. The results of the race must be kept as an unknown to the spectators and therefore interesting enough to stay to the end of the race period for the tracks to remain financially viable. So simple.
 

Xcentric

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I honestly do not understand BoP. Not in theory. Not in practice.

For all the +'s and -'s over the racing season so far, including the tiny last minute adjustments, I was frankly shocked at the apparent lack of BoP in the race.

Who stole the Porsche and Chevy horses? Or did they simply leave a bunch in the barn? Porsche showed some traction advantage early when the track was still wet. When the track dried, they too were off the back.

It should have been GTE PRO...Ford and Ferrari, and GTF PRO...Porsche, Chevy, and AM.

After many hours of watching the in-car cams on FordPerformance.tv, it was clear all the GTs had no problem reeling in and blowing by all GTE PRO cars, with the exception of the 82 Ferrari. And then came the epic pass of 82 by 68 on the Mulsanne straight, with 68 never relinquishing the lead after that.

Amazing accomplishment by the Ford team. But wtf is BoP all about?

I'm imagining a much more competitive, interesting, and enjoyable race if all teams were able to compete within a defined specification (to include tires and fuel consumption), and allow technology to further develop the breed.

P.S. A podium finish could have been lost, because some position lights weren't working? Double wtf?
 
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texas mongrel

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May 3, 2009
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BoP is very simple to understand.

It's all about revenue for the racetracks. If there is a clear winner early in a race, the spectators get bored and leave the race early. If they leave early, then the vendors can't sell their products. If the vendors can't sell their products, they stop supporting the racetrack. The racetrack ceases to be financially sound and closes. It's that simple. The results of the race must be kept as an unknown to the spectators and therefore interesting enough to stay to the end of the race period for the tracks to remain financially viable. So simple.
Kinda, but if BOP is to promote close racing, how come the sanctioning body has allowed Porsche Audi to completely dominate LMP1 for decades? It's all about politics amongst the manufacturers, not the tracks
 

gtinmyblood

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I'm in agreement too. I get the reasoning but it yields too much opportunity for pure subjectivity.
 

BlackICE

GT Owner
Nov 2, 2005
1,415
SF Bay Area in California
I'm in agreement too. I get the reasoning but it yields too much opportunity for pure subjectivity.
Or worst like FIFA.
 

Specracer

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Really????!!!!

A rule is a rule. Eff that. A rule that has nothing to do with racing.
 

fordification

Well-known member
Aug 9, 2005
288
I'm pretty new when it comes to the endurance racing but I think this year is not a good example of leveling the field, especially for lemans, the biggest race of the year.
 

DBK

The Favor Factory™
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Jul 30, 2005
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BoP is to keep manufacturers in the series. Everyone builds road cars for different reasons. One manufacturer builds a purpose built car that lays waste to everyone without recourse, manufacturers bail in a hurry. Knowing the GT would obliterate the field on any kind of level playing field is enough for me.
 

Sinovac

GT Owner
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Gary,

I timed many of the laps and the #68 Ford (as were most of the other GTs) was about 1 second faster per lap than the second place Ferrari. The aero advantage of the FGT was enormous and overcame the race officials' efforts to equalize power and weight.

The FGT was designed to win Le Mans, whereas all of the other GT-class cars were designed as street cars. This is what you hear most from the critics. Some of the post-race radio commentary on this subject was very unkind and offensive in my view.

Nevertheless, the Ford was built in compliance with the rules. Ford will build more than enough street cars for homologation. The "purpose built race car" argument will forever be both a source of criticism from opponents and a point of pride from fortunate owners. As much as I love my '06, the new GT is the true successor to the GT40, both in concept and execution. The parallels to the original GT40 program are amazing.

As for the issue with the #82 Ferrari, it wasn't simply a marker light, it's the fact that the Risi team ignored a flag to make the repair. Under the rules, this clearly would have resulted in a disqualification had race officials chosen not to ignore the infraction.
 
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BlackICE

GT Owner
Nov 2, 2005
1,415
SF Bay Area in California
As for the issue with the #82 Ferrari, it wasn't simply a marker light, it's the fact that the Risi team ignored a flag to make the repair. Under the rules, this clearly would have resulted in a disqualification had race officials chosen not to ignore the infraction.
Yep, it should have been Ford 1, 2, 3.

I don't like selective enforcement of rules or laws, it leads to corruption.
 

Xcentric

GT Owner
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Really????!!!!
Really do I really have to qualify an opinion? :lol

Hey Risi, why did you lose a podium spot after 23+ hours of being in the lead or close to the lead?

Our position light bulb burned out. It unfairly tricked all the competition (i.e., Ford because there was no other competition). It clearly upset the BoP, for which I am truly sorry. :frown
 

DBK

The Favor Factory™
Staff member
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Jul 30, 2005
14,928
Metro Detroit
Really do I really have to qualify an opinion? :lol

Hey Risi, why did you lose a podium spot after 23+ hours of being in the lead or close to the lead?

Our position light bulb burned out. It unfairly tricked all the competition (i.e., Ford because there was no other competition). It clearly upset the BoP, for which I am truly sorry. :frown
Did Ford get penalized, and actually adhere to the penalty, for an LED light related issue?
 

Xcentric

GT Owner
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Did the ACO/FIA hand out trophies, then take the trophies back, then spend the next hours figuring out how to achieve the outcome they wanted? ;)
 

DBK

The Favor Factory™
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Jul 30, 2005
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Did the ACO/FIA hand out trophies, then take the trophies back, then spend the next hours figuring out how to achieve the outcome they wanted? ;)
Doesn't answer the question.

Ford was penalized for the light. They took the penalty and continue racing. Ferrari chose to ignore it without consequence.
 

Xcentric

GT Owner
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Ferrari was penalized post-race. 20 seconds. :lol In the future, I guess it would be sensible for everyone to ignore a black/orange flag and take a 20 second penalty, vs. losing several minutes in the pits.

Ford was also penalized twice post-race. Speeding. And faulty wheel speed sensor. :confused No idea what that is about.

So, in addition to the goofy BoP scheme, add manipulations by the ACO to the things that are wrong with racing.
 

DBK

The Favor Factory™
Staff member
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Jul 30, 2005
14,928
Metro Detroit
Yes, but the penalty was meaningless. 20 seconds is far preferable than pulling in and fixing it, so that car was gifted the finishing position it got. At a minimum, the #69 Ford GT should have finished 2nd, and there was a real chance it could have been 1-2-3.

Maybe if the two AF Corse 488s could have finished the race, the ACO wouldn't have had to ignore itself in order to preserve Ferrari's dignity. Underrated story of the race - Factory Ford GTs completed 340, 340, 339 and 306 laps, all making it to the finish line. Factory Ferraris completed 179 and 143 prior to retirement.

The only manipulations that occurred post-race were assessing pointless penalties that did nothing to change the order.