Whipple /turbo/ pulley and headers
- Thread starter SMOKDU
- Start date
sahlman
Ford GT Team Alumni
Hmmm, I get to have some fun with Clinton! :lol
Well, you are right to a fair degree, but it is not quite static versus dynamic friction. Dang tires are a bit more complex in their behavior than this document is portraying. Once you go past a tire's peak grip point, then many/most tire's grip does fall off (cornering and straight line). Once you go past the peak grip it can hurt and over heat the tire quickly. We run into this a lot with the GY Sprint Cup tires and coach our driver's a lot on it...which is why they often go faster when conserving fuel...they're not going "past the tire". So this is in line with these notes on friction. But it is honestly all dynamic.
A tire's peak grip point in a straight line is between 6-8% slip ratio. That means that the tire contact patch is moving 6-8% faster than the ground at the point. The tire is slipping. Very dynamic, but peak grip. Once you go past that peak some tires are more forgiving and have much less fall off past that point up to about 12%+. A lot of high performance tires, though fall off much quicker in grip past their peak because tradeoffs are made for such a high peak. I would include an example tire graph here, but it seems I am stretching the allowable technical content limits for an American Muscle thread! :lol
So the moral of the story...set your traction control to between 6-8% slip for dry pavement and let her rip!
Scott
PL510*Jeff
Well-known member
- Dec 17, 2011
- 412
Yes we found this out with my drag car. Wheel speed is important but traction is more important to go faster. Many drag cars pull out HP with boost controllers or timing or nitrous kits and timers to get their cars down the track and this is why the setup is so important. Tires,suspension mods,tune,chassis, weight transfer all has to be taken into consideration. This is why one ford GT might handle better than another so comparing blowers and turbos is hard to do if we are just talking about traction. A good setup turbo car might be better in one GT than another. The only thing I personally did not like was the little lag I felt but again this was one car with a setup I do not have any clue about. My whipple car hooks in 2nd because of lower horsepower to the tires . Some HP was taken away from the tune with timing in that low traction area .
Because of this maybe a well set up turbo would feel better to me and change my mind but at this point the car is fast as shit and I have know reason to spend anymore money. If I started with a turbo my car would do all above the best it could because of my racing background over the last 10 years. Next time I'm at an event I would love to take a ride in a well sorted out turbo GT. any takers
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FBA
GT Owner
Yep, goes to 90's...and once upon a time, my Z actually hooked better than my GT - LOL. No longer the case. They both spin in many gears now.
sahlman
Ford GT Team Alumni
10-4. Just pulling your leg...Been to Montreal a few times. You're not much further north than me. The high speed wheel spin is not typical in the FGT or most cars...even with your bigger HP. The tires may be hurt that bad. Hazing the tires will hurt them and get worse. It will speed up the hardening/vulcanizing.
Does the GT step sideways when you get wheelspin in third gear?
FBA
GT Owner
It kind of twists from side to side until I relax the throttle. Nothing unmanageable, and quite predictable too! Car has been lowered .75 in the rear and 1.25 in the front, so the overall ride is a bit stiffer with less "give". I'm not complaining at all; makes for rather spirited driving to say the least and I still have mt right foot traction control, which is more than I can say about my Viper, which equates to driving a dump truck on steroids!
In 3rd the GT won't spin the tires to the point where they do nothing but spin...but the car does kick it's ass out from side to side. 1st and 2nd are another story...
In 3rd the GT won't spin the tires to the point where they do nothing but spin...but the car does kick it's ass out from side to side. 1st and 2nd are another story...
- Dec 17, 2011
- 412
Here is a better pic of the custom intake we made. Notice the mass air card is under for a much cleaner look. thx
Fast Freddy
GPS'D 225 MPH
THamonGT
GT
- Dec 17, 2011
- 412
thx this is light weight aluminum. because of the bigger size I ditched the Mafia. (one less thing to go wrong.
sahlman
Ford GT Team Alumni
It kind of twists from side to side until I relax the throttle. Nothing unmanageable, and quite predictable too! Car has been lowered .75 in the rear and 1.25 in the front, so the overall ride is a bit stiffer with less "give". I'm not complaining at all; makes for rather spirited driving to say the least and I still have mt right foot traction control, which is more than I can say about my Viper, which equates to driving a dump truck on steroids!
In 3rd the GT won't spin the tires to the point where they do nothing but spin...but the car does kick it's ass out from side to side. 1st and 2nd are another story...
10-4. I thought you may be running into clutch slip with your extra HP, which sounded much like wheel spin during development on the program before final clutch settings. But if it is side stepping then the clutch should be fine.
If your car is lowered on stock springs and shocks then your rough road grip and ride will be degraded a fair amount because you are spending a lot of time in the very stiff bump stops without more shock control. This may some of the cause of wheelspin at higher speed on any road roughness.
My Ohlins street lowered package (a little more stiff springs, shocks and custom bump stops) is worth considering in the future for much better ride, grip and steering precision for your lowered car.
Scott
FBA
GT Owner
Thanks Scott, I looked at that setup before I lowered the car.
I honestly don't have any rough riding issues with the car and was told not to bother with the Olins, unless I planned to do track, which I don't. I would expect of course, more wheelspin on rough roads but I don't hammer the car where there exists anything that would upset the suspension. I'm not in the mood to pop an axle. Have a few high performance / high horsepower cars and I don't hammer any of 'em on rougher roads.
I honestly don't have any rough riding issues with the car and was told not to bother with the Olins, unless I planned to do track, which I don't. I would expect of course, more wheelspin on rough roads but I don't hammer the car where there exists anything that would upset the suspension. I'm not in the mood to pop an axle. Have a few high performance / high horsepower cars and I don't hammer any of 'em on rougher roads.
Mark McGowan
Ford GT Team Alumni
- Jul 31, 2006
- 133
FBA, I would not count out the Ohlins for street use. First off the Ohlins are designed to OEM standards and intended to be in service without the need for frequent rebuilds. I found the SS-1 and the SL-1 packages to have better ride, steering and handling than stock. For my trip out to Rally 8 Scott let me use the SS-1 package on my car. Drove the car 6000 miles in 12 days and found it a very comfortable drive. Don’t know if this is a record but on the last day back from Rally 8 I drove from Rawlins Wyoming to home which worked out to 1367 miles in 19 hours and 45 minutes at average speed of 69.21 mph including the 5 gas stops. Jeff, Ralphie can you beat that for miles in a single day? My guess is yes you can.
Not to hijack the thread, but I could not resist matching Mark's mileage efforts.
So close it's crazy....Drove non-stop with a buddy after the Rally in Austin, TX to my home in Pacific Palisades, CA.
1,394 miles in 20 hours, averaged 69.7 mph. Either 4 or 5 gas stops, one for a Big Mac dinner.
So close it's crazy....Drove non-stop with a buddy after the Rally in Austin, TX to my home in Pacific Palisades, CA.
1,394 miles in 20 hours, averaged 69.7 mph. Either 4 or 5 gas stops, one for a Big Mac dinner.
- Dec 17, 2011
- 412
ok back to the blower vs turbo topic. I was wondering why the MPH is more important than the time (ET) it takes to reach the Mile or 1.5 miles. Now with that said and being a drag racer the last 10 years I can tell you the turbo guys always and I mean always ran more MPH to get to the same ET as the blower guys, nitrous or just big cube guys. We would run 170's to run 7's and they would run 180's or higher. In most cases the Turbo cars ran 20 MPH faster to get the same ET. Knowing this why would you run a Blower car if you wanted to set a MPH record ? Just food for thought and I am sure others have figured this out and that is why turbos rule in this arena . I understand why they run faster. The only blowers that came close were the big F3 prochargers and they were centrifugal type gear driven blowers. Dan S should have the best MPH in a Blower car because it is a centrifugal type blower. Good luck Dan some day that's my combp of choice but it is loud.:biggrin
PL510*Jeff
Well-known member
I bow to you Mark. My longest one drive was a little over 1100 with 4 tanks of gas.
I guess I could have driven more,much like you did, but I didn't have a place to stay in mind.:thumbsup
rofl
Fast Freddy
GPS'D 225 MPH
sahlman - can you or anybody on this site tell me if the GT can run E85 if you have Bigger fuel injectors and a tune for it? would there be any damage to the gas tank, fuel pumps, fuel lines, fuel pressure regulator, fuel rails or fuel injectors to run this fuel in the short term or long term?
there is a fellow on this site running this fuel in his GT and apparently he has no problems yet but it was my understanding that the GT's gas tank is not compatible with E85?
there is a fellow on this site running this fuel in his GT and apparently he has no problems yet but it was my understanding that the GT's gas tank is not compatible with E85?
- Dec 17, 2011
- 412
If you did you would need bigger fuel pumps and bigger injectors at least
with a blower car that is. I think the lines and tank are good to go. You would be better off just running meth injection with an extra external pump. iMO
sahlman
Ford GT Team Alumni
I double checked my memory with McGowan - E85 is not intended for the GT, otherwise it would have been deemed a flex fuel vehicle. E85 compatibility is very expensive due to changes to the entire fuel system. E85 destroys standard fuel system o-rings, seals and corrodes any non stainless lines and parts. So yes, fuel pumps, lines, rails, etc are at risk in a big way. I just don't know how long it will take before seeing issues.
Scott