SWINGING DICKISM WRIT LARGE


jammer

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Apr 19, 2016
59
SF Bay Area
I agree with you guys on his bias and disdain, but he does bring up something that’s been rolling around in my head for a few years now. The notion of “the instant classic” seems to confuse me. I am attracted to particular cars for significant contributions they have made whether it be racing pedigree (GT), historical significance (Willys Jeep), or classic Americana (Mustang, Corvette, etc.) With so many unique models being made now and with a declining interest in automobiles by younger generations, I can only surmise there will be a plethora of nice cars for us true enthusiasts to choose from at very reasonable prices in the near future.
If that means I'll be able to find a nice Miura for less than $100k in a few years then Yeah! I too like the way you think :)
 

2112

Blue/white 06'
Mark II Lifetime
If that means I'll be able to find a nice Miura for less than $100k in a few years then Yeah! I too like the way you think :)
1972 Miura SV. 😍
.
 

NorthwoodGT

GT Owner
Jun 12, 2009
1,100
Michigan
Just his opinion and he's got one like everyone else has one of something else. he dumbed the whole thing up by comparing the C8 to all the other cars he mentioned. I like the C8 but it's not a supercar class vehicle. because it's mid-engine? I believe the Fiero was too. get into a C8 for under $60K ? marketing gimmick by GM. try to get a C8 for under $60K. not gonna happen! I do agree with him about $1M priced cars. you better be in this for long haul, and I mean long haul! he got us all talking so his opinionated article obviously worked. jmho
 

centerpunch

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Sep 16, 2005
757
OH/NC
Well, just my opinion, but......

The C8 clearly has supercar performance (even the base non-Z51 version), although with the low price and numbers they will sell, it will clearly not have supercar prestige.

Many dealers are selling for MSRP. I was on the list at a local dealer selling for MSRP, and if I had wanted to, I could have certainly ordered a $60K stripper for delivery next year. I finally decided that I really need a clutch pedal, and.......... the car is just kinda fugly.

I've owned Porsche's since high school in the early 70's, but I do think that company (and others) are thinking pretty hard about how the C8 and future variants will affect the desirability and sales of their cars.
 
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texas mongrel

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
May 3, 2009
1,454
Houston Texas
Different take from me: I for one am glad that all these crazy hypercars are in the world, and I couldn’t care less about the profile or intentions of the buyers. I’f you’ve got the money then go for it. Surely the manufacturers are building these things more as a technological challenge, and not simply to make money as the author implies. I also imagine that they’re building them based upon customer demand - brand-loyal enthusiasts with the funds are pushing, “ c’mon Aston, you’ve got to build the ultimate AM for me”. I also note his final comments about the C8; I guarantee that someone will buy one of these, get hooked on high-performance, work his way into mega-financial success and become one of the author’s loathsome people who buy a future hypercar. Does that mean he’s gone from car enthusiast to douche bag? I don’t think so. Whilst I’ve met many car collectors who don’t have a clue and buy for bragging rights only, I like to think some rich guys buy these cars because they are amazing machines.
 

roketman

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Oct 24, 2005
6,677
ma.
Jealously breeds contempt. But I do agree on the ridiculous prices and air cooled 911's!
Everyone one is entitled to there opinion.But I don't agree with his either!
 

Tomcat

GT Owner
May 23, 2013
914
North Carolina & Perdido Key
I agree with you guys on his bias and disdain, but he does bring up something that’s been rolling around in my head for a few years now. The notion of “the instant classic” seems to confuse me.
As a gut reaction, I think the newer generations respond to (and jump on) "trending issues"...so the marketing people are trying to parlay this into quick/inflated sales on "instant classics".
 

Sinovac

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Jul 18, 2006
5,636
Largo, Florida
Instant classics certainly exist, but that status is determined by the market, not the manufacturer.
 

2112

Blue/white 06'
Mark II Lifetime
That Lotus looks great.

The C8? Nope.

I guess that means I disagree with him, but actually he has some valid points. I just don't resent people who are more financially capable than I am and I worry about the growing trend of vilifying those people for succeeding.

That isn't good.
 

ENZO BTR

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Sep 11, 2005
999
Southern California
Ah yes, angry Pete.

A few things to keep in mind:
1. Pete is advancing in years. And while all of us are advancing in years I think we can agree some do it more gracefully than others. If you're not particularly thrilled with where your life was, is, and is going, you can get pretty crotchety in your old age. As I like to say, cliches don't materialize out of thin air. They come from somewhere. In this instance, I'll reference a franchise that was good for at least two moderately successful movies: Grumpy Old Men.

2. Pete couldn't be more red-white-and-blue if he was permanently tattooed in a full-body flag. Once again, there's nothing wrong with being a fan of America. I certainly am. But being a fan of America and being angry/hating everything that isn't from America are two different things. Pete does both. Notice where all the cars he skewered come from, as well as where the one car he held up as the end-all-be-all of modern performance comes from...

I have a history with Pete. About 15 years ago, when I was editor in chief of Edmudns.com, we released our latest round of "Most Wanted" winners (basically our list of best cars in 20+ different vehicle categories). The list was overwhelming populated by Japanese and European (most German) cars. Why? Because it was the U.S. auto industry in 2005, where the Ford GT was an enigma among nearly universal crap from the Big 3. Some U.S. trucks and SUVs were on the list, but the other 15 categories went to "foreign" brands (like the Honda Accord...built in Ohio...). Anyway, Pete saw the list and went into a tirade about how "anti-American" Edmunds and the Edmunds editors were. I don't normally get into public shouting matches, but I had fun with this one by posting an editorial with a list the 30+ cars I'd owned (at that time). All but 3 were American, including a then-new 2004 Chevrolet Malibu (that I still have, next to my Dodge Demon and Ford GT -- because, you know, I hate America...). Happily, U.S. cars have come a long way in the last 15 years and the foreign/domestic competition is much tighter for Kelley Blue Book awards these days.

3, As correctly pointed out above, Pete can't buy these types of cars. I've come to the conclusion that ENVY is the worst of the Seven Deadly Sins because it involves so many purely-evil forces. First, it means you're focusing more on someone else's station in life than your own. Second, it's assuming you can't achieve what they've achieved (how depressing!). Third, its basic essence is wishing bad things on others simply because of their success. In my opinion it drives the bulk of problems on this planet. I'm talking at a global level. Plus it causes angry old journalists to write angry columns.

4. Most of the cars Pete listed have no appeal to me because, on some level, he's correct. They're more about ego and "out specialing" your rich friends, "I got one and you didn't! Na-na-na-na!" Rich people spend lots of money everyday to "out special" their friends. It's silly, but I don't blame the manufacturers for cashing in on it or the rich people who have the means to do it. In theory we're all supposed to be working to better ourselves and enjoy the benefits that come from that process. If at some point that includes "out specialing" your rich friends for some of us, knock yourself out. Hopefully your friends are above caring (see my "envy" point above).

The other comment I'd make relates to the cars themselves. About 20 years ago I settled in on what I believe is the best possible existence for unique/special cars. Remember, once upon a time people didn't buy cars to admire them in a static display, they bought them to DRIVE them -- yes, even the rare/special ones. I think of the original buyers of Ferrari GTOs, Mustang GT350s and Corvette Grant Sports (as just three examples). People bought those cars to not just drive them, but frickin' RACE them. Beat the hell out of them! Many of them were destroyed in the process but most survived and eventually were seen as the rare machinery they represented. Then the owners restored them and put them in museums or kept them safely in personal collections.

A common term I see thrown around today (mostly on social media profiles) is "Living my best life". The situation I described above, where a new, special performance vehicle is fully utilized right after it's built, and eventually, AFTER BEING FULLY UTILIZED FOR SEVERAL YEARS, reaches a "retirement" stage and is kept safe for future generations to admire? THAT is a car "living its best life." It always cracks me up when people get a new performance car and stick it safely away for years with less than 20 miles on the odo.

Hey Einstein, you know that vehicle has full warranty coverage, right? And guess when the coverage starts? And more importantly, when it ends?

Anyway, I'm glad I was able to put 31,000 miles on my Ford GT over 13 years (including trips to Monterey, Salt Lake City, San Diego and Denver, plus track time at Laguna Seca and both Willow tracks). If the new GT hadn't come out I planned the same life for that car. I would have enjoyed it for at least another 10-15 (as we know, the 2005-2006 GTs are arguably the most durable supercars ever created), then I would have had it restored from the ground up and wiped it with a diaper (probably the same ones I'll be wearing at that point). Instead I had to sell it to Doug DeMuro to afford the new one, and now he's driving it on a regular basis. (y)

Instead I'm doing my best to enjoy my 2019 Ford GT like I did the 2005. If owning and driving that "hypercar" makes grumpy old journalists feel envious, and call me "greedy", oh well.
 
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PeteK

GT Owner
Apr 18, 2014
1,210
Great Falls, VA
Expensive cars, designed, built for, and bought by those who can afford them, has a highly beneficial market effect: The first/ most expensive products and customers start the cycle of improvement which spreads technology outward and brings down the price for similar items at lower price points. Virtually all the extra features we take for granted on mid-price and inexpensive cars (and other products) started as a feature for luxury cars. Those of us who buy expensive cars, computers, houses, drugs, etc., perform the socially valuable function of amortizing the initial development and driving down the cost of those items for everyone else.

That's economically correct, but not something that fits in a 10-second sound bite, or can be understood by jealous "journalists" and a certain party of politicians.

But I agree that the prices for 40-year old air-cooled Porsches are nuts!
 
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KennethClay

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Oct 15, 2012
631
New York
Apologies in advance for the provocative title of the article.

Since we actually DRIVE our cars, the article isn't about us, But it was kind of an interesting read on the state of the collector car industry/market.

http://www.autoextremist.com/current/2019/8/20/swinging-dickism-writ-large.html?
 

Empty Pockets

ex-GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Oct 18, 2006
1,292
Washington State
Since I have stated many times that, in my view, no car is worth over a million bucks, this will come as no surprise to many here:

I agree with much of what DeLorenzo wrote about the cars and their cost...most notably his comments regarding the C8.


That having been said, DeLorenzo's obvious and unbecoming disdain for wealthy individuals stood out like a tin outhouse in the moonlight...and was about as attractive.

'No call for that...
 

centerpunch

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Sep 16, 2005
757
OH/NC
It's probably hard sitting on the sidelines as a lowly journalist watching the multi-million dollar cars drive by, but it's just sad when one resorts to name calling, saying companies that make expensive cars have an "ode to greed" and buyers who buy those car "have too much money," when the simple truth is, just like any other products in our kinda-free world, it's simple supply and demand.

You'd think an long-time automotive journalist would actually be excited about seeing some amazing high-end cars, instead of complaining that "it basically sucks" that an old air-cooled 911 costs too much.

Unlike me, I guess maybe he forgot to buy his old 911 before the prices went up.
 
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timcantwell

Le Mans 2010 Sponsor * Moderator
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Jan 22, 2006
2,613
N.E. OH & Naples, FL
Interesting viewpoint, some truth there, but obviously clouded by a very biased point of view.
 
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Stef

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Apr 5, 2009
845
Southern California
After the first couple paragraphs I was wondering if the author is one of those extremists that cover their faces whenever they hate on someone.

I'm at least like.....
NOPE, NOT A CAR GUY.

Then right there at the end plugging and singing the praises for GM's latest greatest thing since sliced bread car.

He makes a couple valed points but
the only swinging D is this author's biased view point.
 
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Special K

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Aug 23, 2016
1,254
Franklinton, LA
I agree with you guys on his bias and disdain, but he does bring up something that’s been rolling around in my head for a few years now. The notion of “the instant classic” seems to confuse me. I am attracted to particular cars for significant contributions they have made whether it be racing pedigree (GT), historical significance (Willys Jeep), or classic Americana (Mustang, Corvette, etc.) With so many unique models being made now and with a declining interest in automobiles by younger generations, I can only surmise there will be a plethora of nice cars for us true enthusiasts to choose from at very reasonable prices in the near future.
 
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Stef

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Apr 5, 2009
845
Southern California
I agree with you guys on his bias and disdain, but he does bring up something that’s been rolling around in my head for a few years now. The notion of “the instant classic” seems to confuse me. I am attracted to particular cars for significant contributions they have made whether it be racing pedigree (GT), historical significance (Willys Jeep), or classic Americana (Mustang, Corvette, etc.) With so many unique models being made now and with a declining interest in automobiles by younger generations, I can only surmise there will be a plethora of nice cars for us true enthusiasts to choose from at very reasonable prices in the near future.
Yeah! I like the way you think :)
 
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Apollo

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Aug 5, 2006
2,432
Pahrump, NV
I agree with you guys on his bias and disdain, but he does bring up something that’s been rolling around in my head for a few years now. The notion of “the instant classic” seems to confuse me. I am attracted to particular cars for significant contributions they have made whether it be racing pedigree (GT), historical significance (Willys Jeep), or classic Americana (Mustang, Corvette, etc.) With so many unique models being made now and with a declining interest in automobiles by younger generations, I can only surmise there will be a plethora of nice cars for us true enthusiasts to choose from at very reasonable prices in the near future.
So what I am hearing is I need to keep working so I can pay for more toys...;)
 

fjpikul

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Jan 4, 2006
10,280
Belleville, IL
No dummy, you make the wife work.