Spare clam shell? New intercooler design!

[gtkurt]

Does any one know where I could find a spare clam shell? Even with damage I need one to cut up to accommodate a air to air intercooler for my new twin turbo set up. There will be no more heat soak for me if it is the last thing I do.
Bye Bye Whipple!

Thanks for the help. Kurt

 

[dbk]

I would think you'd be good just switching to the turbo. That'll run WAY cooler than the Whipple (assuming they are mounted underneath).

I'll see if I can find a spare...

 

[gtkurt]

I would think you'd be good just switching to the turbo. That'll run WAY cooler than the Whipple (assuming they are mounted underneath).

I'll see if I can find a spare...

I hate the heat soak limp mode thing that happens to my car right now sooo much I can not take the chance. The other turbo guys I have spoke with do concur with you. But none of them seem to have any idea where to put a intercooler in our cars maybe that is why it has to be good enough. I think as hard as I drive my car in the nasty Arizona heat the turbos will heat soak as well. I am sick of twin turboed Vipers ,Porsches,Supras etc. having a advantage over the GT.

Any one know of a carbon fiber shell?

Thank's for looking Dave!

 

[dbk]

The inner shell of the clamshell is CF. I think a pure CF outer would be a silly invoice.

Talk to Heffner and he should be able to give you an idea of the heat his setup generates using the stock IC. We really put it to one of his cars in Texas and the temps were way lower than what my car with the stock blower and a 2.7 pulley see...

 

[nota4re]

I assume you are planning to keep the stock air-to-water intercooler and you are looking to add an air-to-air in addition?

 

[S592R]

if he is doing an add on where do you mount it without replumbing the entire car?

 

[cobrar1339]

I did some dyno testing witht he garrett turbos

things that worked......

Larger Air to Air IC, but only when the runs were short. Otherwise the pressure drop was nothing but lag.

Jet Hot Exhaust and Turbo

Extrude honed turbo and exhaust manifolds, mine was not a rear mount, so that may not matter for you.

Ported and polished heads. Extruded haeds also worked but the process can mess up the valve seating area.

Sprayer for the IC ....not in the engine bay for our cars, but you could get creative.

NOS 50 shot. Does wonders for it.

The only place I think you have to run an addl cooler is the rear window area. Do a top mount with reverse louvers to feed it, at the expense of drag, or feed it through the upper intake vents, which sounds like your plan.

My experience with turbos or blowers is they all heat soak at some point. But you should surely be able to spank all but the 1% of Supra's or Viper's with the Whipple set-up alone. The TT package is off the charts in power, which presents all kinds of other fun things to work out. I think I would speak with Torrie/Hennsessy as they have a ton of experience in this arena and likely know just what to do for the GT. Mihovetz is also a good source, but he run's 1/4 mile at a time, world record holder 4.6 TT.

Are you really getting beat on power?, traction, gearing and tune have as much to do with it as the set-up itself IMO.

Just curious...where do you get spanked.....Drag race from a dead stop.....roll on from X mph in X gear, road course?

I say this as my buddy can smoke me in his blown C5 at certin mph roll on's to X #, in X gear. But when in other gears I whop his behind pretty badly. The same goes for his C6 Z, but after X mph it's game over for him. His gearing in both cars is better for this purpose and both cars are lighter to boot. Mine is bone stock right now. When I pull him later in the run he thinks I am sand bagging.

 

[dgussin1]

you could run methanol instead of an intercooler.

see this thread.

http://www.modularfords.com/forums/f134/stock-motor-33-psi-999-7-a-89873.html

 

[tmcphail]

GTKurt I have tons of data on my own car in various mod levels. PM or email me what your desire is and I'll kick back what I have learned on my GT and assist if I can.

 

[somelee]

just wondering if any of you know......does the Whipple produce significantly more heat than the stock supercharger?

thanks

 

[gtkurt]

I assume you are planning to keep the stock air-to-water intercooler and you are looking to add an air-to-air in addition?

I plan to remove the air to water heat exchanger. I feel it is just a time bomb waiting to heat soak. I have a lot of real world in this matter.

 

[gtkurt]

My experience with turbos or blowers is they all heat soak at some point. But you should surely be able to spank all but the 1% of Supra's or Viper's with the Whipple set-up alone. The TT package is off the charts in power, which presents all kinds of other fun things to work out. I think I would speak with Torrie/Hennsessy as they have a ton of experience in this arena and likely know just what to do for the GT. Mihovetz is also a good source, but he run's 1/4 mile at a time, world record holder 4.6 TT.

Are you really getting beat on power?, traction, gearing and tune have as much to do with it as the set-up itself IMO.

Just curious...where do you get spanked.....Drag race from a dead stop.....roll on from X mph in X gear, road course?

I have spoke with Heffner, Stage 6 (the people who built Joes car),and John Mihovetz. They all think the Heat exchanger is ok. When I ask for other options no one has had one I think that is why it has to be ok. I guarantee If I drive any turboed GT in this town the way I like to drive it will heat soak. I race 1/4mile from a dig, Freeways on a roll,and on Highways with the Scottsdale Exotic Car Club (For hundreds of miles at speed). There is no way that the heat exchanger can keep up. Once that water is hot you are done the GT goes into limp mode and has a flashing check engine light. I had methanol injection installed on my GT in only prolongs the inevitable.
As for getting spanked It is a limp mode problem not a power problem.
I have not been able to race the turboed Vipers under cool weather conditions, but I do believe they will be faster vs my current set up.

 

[gtkurt]

GTKurt I have tons of data on my own car in various mod levels. PM or email me what your desire is and I'll kick back what I have learned on my GT and assist if I can.

Thanks Torrie! I think the only solution for me is a air to air intercooler if you have any ideas please let me know.

I have friends in town with one of the best fab shops in the country it is called Full Race they do a lot of import turbo manifolds,and custom fabrication. When they finish up my Mitsubishi EVO project it will be time to start on the GT. Thanks again Kurt

 

[gtkurt]

just wondering if any of you know......does the Whipple produce significantly more heat than the stock supercharger?

thanks

With 23lb of boost it sure does. Over 400 degrees IA temp when run hard.

 

[gtkurt]

Actually, to be accurate, it does not create more heat, it's cooler at the same boost levels. Since the 2.3L Lysholm cannot create 23psi on that engine, there is no comparison. Boost for boost, its far cooler air. Whats creating more heat is more boost. A turbo will have significantly higher discharge temps, but take significantly less power to operate. They also typically have less airflow restrictions, as you can "duct" the air better for equal distribution over the intercooler core. This gives you better cooling through the IC housing and does not slow the air speed down as much.

Separately, if your seeing over 400deg F on the inlet side, your picking up a tremendous amount of hot air from the exhaust and other residual heat. That means the inlet temp into the SC has to be reaching 140-150deg F.

As for limp mode, are you referring to the engine overheat?

Dustin

Who orders a Whipple to run the same boost levels? Butt I did say at 23lb of boost.

The turboed GT guys I have spoke with claim no more than 200 deg IA temp.
In Arizona the air starts off at 110deg plus so air into the SC at 140deg would not be much of a stretch. Except that I am using methanol water mix as 20% of my fuel under boost. This did help butt it only putts of the inevitable heat soak.

Limp mode
When the IA temp gets to hot the GT pulls timing and adds fuel and turns on a flashing check engine light. At that point the car just bogges if you try to floor it. However the coolant temp of the motor is not hot at all 210deg is the hottest I have ever seen. If you continue to drive at a cruising speed the light will go off, and power will eventually come back. For the record I am guessing that IA temp triggers it. I have had this problem a dozen time sense the install of my Whipple supercharger.

I supercharger is also spraying my rear window (the one right behind the seats) with a lite mist of oil. Dustin is this a problem you have experienced before? What must be done to fix this issue?

If you guys at Whipple have any solutions I would really appreciate them.

 

[cobrar1339]

GTkurt,

Keep us posted on how it works out. If you never try anything different you can't innovate:thumbsup. Good discussion

" I learned 1001 way how not to make a light bulb" Thomas Edison on persistence.

 

[B O N Y]

Dustin Whipple!
Glad to see you posting again.
Welcome.
Daniel

 

[Shadowman]

Now of all people I enjoy the sharing of good data and I am very glad that some comparable data was tossed into this mix

Stating that a Whipple with a 23 PSI pulley being spun created 400F discharge temperature is only interesting to me unless the variables such as ambient temperature., the method that the gal was being driven, the duration of time, and the list goes on is also shared.

Now do roots style superchargers produce an INCREASE in discharge temperatures and take raw horse power to produce an even greater amount of horse power; absolutely hence the liquid charge cooler in the case of the GT. Is it the perfect solution; no and yet it is a proven design that allows the gal to be exercised in a very spirited manner. Now if one intends on using these gals on a long road courses attempting to race competitively then the root supercharger will never be the best game in town and yet for as many years as I can remember I have remained a huge fan of the roots supercharger even with all their quirks; they are simply fricken cool

Back to the comparison; in OEM trim the gals are producing an average of 12 PSI of boost and IMO at this point the OEM supercharger is working very hard and producing much heat while doing this. Now add to the mix a smaller pulley and the discharge temperatures and the blower's maximum efficiency has not only been passed but is now being used beyond its design limits.

Now this brings us to the Whipple; the unit is larger and at 19 PSI it is IMO a fricken lazy operating supercharger as such will allow for the greatest amount of boost with the least amount of discharge air temperature increases; the key word here is "least" because the temperatures will increase. Now the fact that at 23 PSI you experienced temperatures in the 400F range does not surprise me because this is the by-product of squeeze 23 pounds of ???? into a 12 pound bag.

In any case; there is no doubt that a TT setup has the potential for minimal parasitic loss and even more important is the fact that one can better manage the discharge air temperatures hence the compressed charge air temperature which very simply will = even more power.

Now having shared this; am I drawn to the TT for myself; no as my passion remains with the noisy somewhat archaic roots style superchargers with that gangly belt forcing the gal to take deeper and deeper breaths; however I think that the TT gals are truly BADASS

For me even my simple grocery getter of nearly 30 years needed a huge roots style supercharger


All the best

Shadowman

 

[Kingman]

For me even my simple grocery getter of nearly 30 years needed a huge roots style supercharger


All the best

Shadowman

OK, you teased us with a pic of the beast's heart...how about a full exposure (pics) of the 'grocery getter'? Does she have slicks? Flames? Etc..? Inquiring minds NEED to know. :biggrin

 

[californiacuda]

The roots sc creates the most torque at lowest rpm.