SC and TT Characteristics Compared & Discussed

[nota4re]

As long as we're taking turns in the confessional booth, my only regret in this thread is the occasional insinuation (maybe I'm just paranoid) that I have a $-oriented bias toward the promotion of the TT kits. For those that know me and have visited, they know that Cool Tech was and has been a hobby business born out of genuine passion for the GT. I do have a regular, sometime 60 hour per week day job. However, even on long days, the best relaxation in the world is when I can get home, throw on a t-shirt and shorts and go work in the shop on the GT's that seem to be here on a continuous basis. Now, the TT install takes about 50 hours of labor to install from start to finish including an hour or so of time at the dyno. So, yes, I guess you can say that there's reasonable money there for us - but we have done plenty of Whipple installs too and countless pulley upgrades, etc, etc. I don't really want or need to be any busier than we already are as we tend to work on cars in a serial and not parallel fashion.

However, my preference is to be known as an owner - perhaps a very spoiled owner. I'm in the great position to look under the covers at many products - to touch and feel their quality and in many cases to hear/learn/benefit from the experience of other owners. Several times in the past I have not been a strong advocate of one product or another - only to change my mind completely after doing an installation and/or seeing the results. Of course, the opposite is also true - but it is rare to find a bad or poor quality product in this community, IMO. Like many others on this forum, by education I am also an engineer. I have to be able to rationalize and explain things that I see or feel with charts and graphs. This is the crap that keeps me up at night - when I can't resolve how something works or why it behaves a certain way.

I started this thread first and foremost to try to point out the differences of forced induction methods as it pertains to the GT. My quest was to take a complex and sometimes emotional topic ("Tastes great! Less filling!) and try to make some generalizations of how they work and along the way to perhaps dispel misconceptions, etc. My vote in this thread is that ALL of us continue in that manner - rather than close the thread or something over some un-intended stepping on toes. If I have offended anybody it's only because you're wrong and I'm right. Oops, sorry Chip. Seriously, I sincerely apologize to anyone I may have offended - sometimes things get really clear in my own small mind but I lack the skills to adequately translate them to words!!

(Finally, it is absolutely flattering to have my name mentioned in the same sentence as Heffner, Torrie, Shadowman, etc. because I consider all of these guys true rock stars at the top of their game! Myself, I'm just an installer who has poor skills at expressing myself amongst my peers.)

 

[skyrex]

Honestly one of the reasons for the "passionate" responses to this thread is we (long time owners/Forum members) are all loyal car enthusiasts who found an unbelivable car and equally unbelivable group of people that share that passion. I dare say no other car could inspire this kind of debate. We are loyal to the car, the people we have met while owning the car and more than any other car we own we are loyal to the people who work on, service and create parts for them. And that is a good thing.

If you would have told me a 2 and a half years ago that I would buy this car, post regularly on a Forum (the only one I have ever posted on by the way) and do multiple upgrades to my car culminating in spending what I still consider a ridiculous amount of money in the quest for speed and fun I would have said you are crazy. But here I am, and I am still having way too much fun!!!

I had two goals in buying this car. One, I had heard of the pulley upgrade before purchase in the edmunds long term test and it seemed a safe easy way to have a 700hp/200mph supercar. Second was to drive 200mph. I accomplished both and still wanted more. This car does crazy things to people :willy That as much as some of the very cool people I have had the opprotunity to meet and get to know are why this has become the first car I can not see parting with ever. I got everything I wanted with this car and a whole lot more. I don't just own a super car, I own THE super car. :cheers

 

[Shadowman]

Now this thread feels similar to days gone past

nota4re I for one truly appreciate your shared comments and personal feelings.

The season is still young with some phenomenal events about to unfold during which many old and new friends will be visited with, something that I look forward to.

To all I wish for you the very best and that your quest to have your dream(s) realized is realized; mine continue to be day in and day out.

All the best

Shadowman

 

[sandman]

Sandman,

You have been around this Forum for a long time, and though your post count is not high you are one of our more recognizable and respected members. As one of a minority of our members who regularly track their cars and take it close to the limits of its capabilities, your posts carry a lot of weight with our membership and with me. My only admonition in this thread was directed at a proponent of the twin turbo system, not to a detractor. I don't allow or disallow any opinions, they are all welcome here. I simply requested that members state their opinions and comments in the first person. I struck a total of three words from this thread and they were "You are wrong", I have not stricken any theories or admonished anybody for dissenting. Members should feel free to tell us what they think and why, or that you disagree and why. Any information one wishes to post can be presented without crossing the line from "I think", or "my experience is" to "you are".

As less than 1% of the Ford GT population (fewer than 40 cars) has been converted to Twin Turbo's, it certainly isn't the end all system and the vast majority of owners will certainly stay with the supercharger. My intent was to accurately represent my actual experience with the car, it was not to misrepresent your words. Perhaps there is a better way I could have more delicately disagreed as you are one of the last people I want to get sideways with.

As regards the value of information, in the beginning, until a field experience is acquired, all that we have to go on is theory and extrapolation. From electric toothbrushes to the space shuttle, everything starts out as design theory on paper. When that theory is turned into hardware that can actually be tested, the actual results of that field testing trump all of the theory that came before it. I have tested a number of modifications that I thought would make my Glasair III aircraft faster. My buddy Kirby Chambliss is constantly testing theory and modifications that he thinks will make his Red Bull Air Race plane faster. Our theories are well thought out and based upon 30 years of flying and aircraft building experience. Still, 90+% of the time our theories prove themselves to be wrong in the field, and our aircraft end up being slower. I don't care how well my theory was formulated or how confident I was in its validity, when field testing shows it didn't produce results, my theory is worthless. For a couple years I worked as a test pilot for the MT Propeller Company in Germany. They sent a series of computer designed three blade propellers for me to test on my airplane that they were virtually certain would make it faster. Decades of knowledge and the most powerful computer programming said so. In the air, they were a disaster, some of them slowed my plane down 15 knots. "What I think will happen" is always trumped by "What did happen".

Which brings us back to the twin turbo Ford GT. I would be perfectly happy if mine was the last one ever built (#35). But as we have many members who are considering going in this direction, and as most of them will have to spend approx. $35,000 without ever having driven one, I believe accurate information from members who have experience with these cars "in the field" is more valuable than the theories of those who have not driven one. I had to pay for my twin turbo as well, Jason Heffner refused to comp me! The last thing I would like to have happen is for somebody to spend that type of money upon my recommendation and have it fail to meet their high expectations. Conversely, it would be a shame for a member to decide against this mod on the basis of opinion without experience.

And Sandman, lest you think I don't respect your opinion or ability, I'll make you a deal. At Rally VI, you are the only person I will let drive my car on the track (I'll ride in the passenger seat). Then you can write your comments up, good or bad. Afterward, I'll buy the cocktails. What do you think?? Cheers.

Chip

Chip,
Thank you for replying, your points are well taken and comments appreciated. Unfortunately as tempting as your offer is I am unable to attend the rally. As for the extraordinary offer, I’m honored that you would extend it to me. My only caveat would be that I ride with you; she’s your gal! I'm sure at some point our paths will cross and I will take you up on a ride and I’m buying afterword.

I’ll be hitting the track again soon and will have both GT’s, Porsche GT3 RS, 911 Carrera 4S and a Mini GP for fun and games if you’re in the neighborhood….

 

[PeakCompletions]

Just catching up with this thread and must say there is a lot of good information here and sources to go to who have inputed for anyone interested in modifying their gal with either system...

Although I don't have a Whipple and haven't driven one here is my two cents... (taking out the Yellow car cause, well, that one is just my favorite and I am too biased HAHA)

I am not going to get into the technology as that has been done, or what is faster etc... just a few of my personal observations and thoughts which may help or muddle the pot :biggrin

As it has been said, each one is different. If I had my choice of only one it would be the TT system... the draw backs and benefits have been mentioned but the biggest one for me is complete adjustability. With the boost controller the ability to "dial" in your power to put the maximum amount possible to the pavement in the smoothest manner possible is attractive to me. I have 1000 hp rear wheel drive NA and SC cars and they are a BLAST to drive. Are they quicker to 100 mph while I am peddling the throttle to gain traction vs the alternative? No. Vbox has proven that. The Veyron is a testament of this. I have talked to people who have hit 0-100-0 mph flat footed with no wheel spin and without touching the wheel. The ability to "dial" in your power (I first did it with the Viper) makes for a quicker driving experience with less work... Other quick side notes that I have seen with the TT have been lower operating temps, a small amount of turbo lag which usually means I am a gear lower driving around than with the SC to keep the RPM (but in spirited driving quite honestly in any car I find myself keeping the RPM up), power shifting turns this into a different car and eliminates the "Wait" time when going through the gears (but also made possible on the first gears with the boost adjustments by gear), slightly quieter exhaust but by no means quiet, possibly higher maintenance having extra oil lines, turbos etc...

Now with that being said, my "daily" or the setup I wanted for the bulk of my street driving is the SC/TT setup... why? because I wanted the "fun" factor that has been mentioned of the instant boost down low and the added boost up top as Mullet has attested to. Even before the addition of a boost bypass that we figured out which with the TT add on package we retained the ability to dial in the car as above, I wanted the "Feel" of power on the street... would I want to take on a Twin Turbo Lambo with dialed in boost by gear from a light? Probably not.. But I felt like this compromise was what I wanted to enjoy most of the time. Being a "boost addict" this fit the bill for me having low down power for grunt and kicking the tail out whenever desired and having wrinkle erasing high end pull.. :banana

My SC only setup favorite thing? The sound! There is nothing like a SC setup without the TTs acting like mufflers. The instant on power at any RPM range always puts a smile on your face. Again, for me more of an old school feel and sound that I love with this car!!

Again, everyone has their favorites and their driving style will dictate what they choose.

I think the one that shines the most for me is what was so apparent at the Car & Driver Shootout, the ability to put the maximum power to the ground. Without the TT setup there was no way we could have put all the power down in every gear the way we did.

And no matter which system, these 5.4s are unmatched in the sound department at WOT :banana:banana:banana:banana

[video=youtube;jU6MJVqfa8Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jU6MJVqfa8Q[/video]

:cheers

 

[sandman]

Excellent points all! The only thing I would add is that for those concerned with wheel spin or getting the power to the ground but not wanting or able (cost or legality) to go to a TT, traction control is an option. Several members are using it on Whippled cars with great results.