loose control under acceleration?
- Thread starter Steve Schneider
- Start date
Fast Freddy
GPS'D 225 MPH
most of the wrecked GT's that i have read about are modified with more power and not enough tire and are wrecked on the street, particularly in cold weather....
personally i feel the safest place i can drive my GT is on a runway despite the speed attained....
granted i am utilizing alot of safety gear when i am racing but still a runway has alot of room for error and is a controlled environment unlike a freeway in socal, etc....
P.S. - driving fast cars at night is very dangerous imo as the cars can absolutely outrun their headlights....
personally i feel the safest place i can drive my GT is on a runway despite the speed attained....
granted i am utilizing alot of safety gear when i am racing but still a runway has alot of room for error and is a controlled environment unlike a freeway in socal, etc....
P.S. - driving fast cars at night is very dangerous imo as the cars can absolutely outrun their headlights....
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BlackICE
GT Owner
Fubar
Totally ****** Up
+1 This.
I believe that the physics of a mid engine car play a huge roll in the reason you see so many drivers loss-it going straight in a Ford GT. At the risk of sounding like a know-it-all... which I don't by any means but here it goes: The GT has a 43/57% weight distribution favoring the rear of the car. For some reason this exact percentage distribution that can be found on many other very expensive performance cars(Lamborghini Murci, Ferrari 430), it is said to be "perfect" by some... I have no idea why. But when considered in the context of physics, I like to think of a throwing dart illustration. The heavy end will always try to move to forward position of travel. While this characteristic may enhance the cars agility in the turns, it exaggerates it's tendency to push the rear of the car into the direction of travel... and consequently makes the 'point of no return' much easier to reach. Whereas a front engine car has (usually) more weight on the front axle, therfor the front for the car wants to stay in the front (where we like it).
If you couple this with a driver who is not expecting problems and a complete lack of stability control hardware and traction control logic, reactions times will be much more delayed than they might otherwise be at the track or in another car with the aforementioned nannies.
H
HHGT
Guest
Here is another web page that will make engineers drool.
http://autopedia.com/stuttgart-west/StuttPhysics.html
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http://autopedia.com/stuttgart-west/Physics/StuttPhysics01.html
and
http://autopedia.com/stuttgart-west/Physics/StuttPhysics02.html
and
http://autopedia.com/stuttgart-west/Physics/StuttPhysics03.html
and
http://autopedia.com/stuttgart-west/Physics/StuttPhysics04.html
and
http://autopedia.com/stuttgart-west/Physics/StuttPhysics05.html
and
http://autopedia.com/stuttgart-west/Physics/StuttPhysics06.html
and
http://autopedia.com/stuttgart-west/Physics/StuttPhysics07.html
It keeps going, but now we are in geek territory.
http://autopedia.com/stuttgart-west/StuttPhysics.html
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.
.
http://autopedia.com/stuttgart-west/Physics/StuttPhysics01.html
and
http://autopedia.com/stuttgart-west/Physics/StuttPhysics02.html
and
http://autopedia.com/stuttgart-west/Physics/StuttPhysics03.html
and
http://autopedia.com/stuttgart-west/Physics/StuttPhysics04.html
and
http://autopedia.com/stuttgart-west/Physics/StuttPhysics05.html
and
http://autopedia.com/stuttgart-west/Physics/StuttPhysics06.html
and
http://autopedia.com/stuttgart-west/Physics/StuttPhysics07.html
It keeps going, but now we are in geek territory.
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All things being equal, having more weight in the front will tend to make the car understeer more... giving less throttle control once the back end is broken loose to compensate for the ploughing front end. The car will spin easier, or not turn at the corner.
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Empty Pockets
ex-GT Owner
...not to mention the inability of one's PERIPHERAL vision to pick up something that may be on a collision course with one's car until it's faaaaar too late.
BlackICE
GT Owner
cobra498
GT Owner
There could be another component here that has to do with the drivers of all these cars, they all have the financial resources to purchase some very high performance cars but not the skill to drive them unless they have been driving cars like these for years, most likely not the case because if they had, they would not crash. You don't just jump into a car that can smoke the tires at 100 mph or more and drive it like an expert. When the car starts to go your hands better have the steering correction already done or you will be going for a ride. I am well past the point where my reflexes are good enough to catch the car in all situations anymore so I don't push past that point. You have to develop those reflexes at a very young age so that the muscle memory is there when you need it, learning to control a high performance car after you are over 30 can be really tough. This is why almost all professional drivers started in karts at a very young age, they develop great car control skills. The GT on street tires is just as difficult to drive at the limit as most full on race cars so how could a person with limited experience expect to control a car that he has probably never had sideways. I can guarantee that the majority of drivers who lose control are .5 to 1 second behind the car, the key is don't go there in the first place. A high output front engine rear drive car will do the same thing maybe even worse but they are not generally owed by wealthy individuals with limited driving experience with the exception of Vipers and they get crashed a lot too. A good 3 day driving school would probably prevent most of the incidents we see because the students would learn to avoid the situation in the first place.
cobra498
GT Owner
There could be another component here that has to do with the drivers of all these cars, they all have the financial resources to purchase some very high performance cars but not the skill to drive them unless they have been driving cars like these for years, most likely not the case because if they had, they would not crash. You don't just jump into a car that can smoke the tires at 100 mph or more and drive it like an expert. When the car starts to go your hands better have the steering correction already done or you will be going for a ride. I am well past the point where my reflexes are good enough to catch the car in all situations anymore so I don't push past that point. You have to develop those reflexes at a very young age so that the muscle memory is there when you need it, learning to control a high performance car after you are over 30 can be really tough. This is why almost all professional drivers started in karts at a very young age, they develop great car control skills. The GT on street tires is just as difficult to drive at the limit as most full on race cars so how could a person with limited experience expect to control a car that he has probably never had sideways. I can guarantee that the majority of drivers who lose control are .5 to 1 second behind the car, the key is don't go there in the first place. A high output front engine rear drive car will do the same thing maybe even worse but they are not generally owed by wealthy individuals with limited driving experience with the exception of Vipers and they get crashed a lot too. A good 3 day driving school would probably prevent most of the incidents we see because the students would learn to avoid the situation in the first place.
BlackICE
GT Owner
My recommendation is read some of the links Sam posted.Very good Sam!There are some great books on performance driving that you may want check out too.
Than go to a drivers school/ HPDE.Come to a rally, and get one of our instructors.They all have great experience in Ford GT's.
It's the most fun you can have with your clothes on.Unless you do it naked!
Than go to a drivers school/ HPDE.Come to a rally, and get one of our instructors.They all have great experience in Ford GT's.
It's the most fun you can have with your clothes on.Unless you do it naked!
Howard
GT Owner
An inexpensive, easily accessable learning opportunity is a local autocross. You won't win any trophies in a Ford GT (too heavy, too wide, too long) but it is a safe way to experience those slides we've been talking about, and learn the techniques to catch them and use them to your advantage. It's also a great way to grind away the OEM tires to justify the Bridgestone upgrade. All the car nuts at the event will love your car, too.
Howard
Howard
TO AWSUM
Ford GT Owner
Looks like a very inexperienced driver who had no feel for the car beginning to lose traction. Way too slow reaction time. Look at the angle of his front tires. Way too little steering into the skid and at the end he actually straightened out his tires causing the car to skid even further to the right impacting the curb. If he had continued to steer more agressively to the right at the beginning of the skid, he most likely would not have impacted the curb.
This autocross location scared me as soon as I opened the video. Way too many obstructions: vehicles near course, walls, curbs, and way too narrow.
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H
HHGT
Guest
If I was to decide on going to track at my age now, it would be in a Bos302 LS. I drove Kendall's once through our local canyon and I was impressed to no end.
Thanks for the kind comments Ron.
Thanks for the kind comments Ron.
HIRISC
GT Owner
Prior to taking delivery, I read many posts warning new drivers of the nearly-imminent spin. When I first got her, I was very, very careful to lean into the power.
After 1,000 end of the season miles, with greatly varied ambient temps (80F down to 35F) on Bridgestones, I'd have to say that she has far more grip than I anticipated (knocks on wood). Even without traction control, and with more power (pulley/tune), she's a lot less sketchy with cold tires/temps than my stock Z06 (even on Nitto Invo's). Got to love mid-engined weight distribution and relatively tall gearing.
(I have 0 experience with stock runcraps on the GT.. presume it would not be confidence inspiring).
After 1,000 end of the season miles, with greatly varied ambient temps (80F down to 35F) on Bridgestones, I'd have to say that she has far more grip than I anticipated (knocks on wood). Even without traction control, and with more power (pulley/tune), she's a lot less sketchy with cold tires/temps than my stock Z06 (even on Nitto Invo's). Got to love mid-engined weight distribution and relatively tall gearing.
(I have 0 experience with stock runcraps on the GT.. presume it would not be confidence inspiring).
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twobjshelbys
GT Owner
I think the advantage of having a Cobra before the FGT was the knowledge it was a beast before hand. Everything I learned in handling it are applicable to the FGT.
But regarding high powered short wheel base cars... Just imagine what an Ariel Atom must be like. I'd like to try one some day.
tmctguer
GT Owner
a couple of things:
1). when i owned Porsche's, i went to an a few autocrosses and found that all i really did was get to rev my car up to 6000 RPM's in second gear and dodge cones. this was fun once or twice, but it was more frustrating for me. ultimately it led me to take my P-car to real race tracks for two seasons.
2). i was at a Skip Barber event in October at Laguna Seca. one thing they taught us, which i saw as absent in the Corvette driver who wrecked, was that as soon as you feel the car begin to spin out of control, depress the clutch and MASH the brakes. maybe this technique would have saved the driver from hitting the wall.
1). when i owned Porsche's, i went to an a few autocrosses and found that all i really did was get to rev my car up to 6000 RPM's in second gear and dodge cones. this was fun once or twice, but it was more frustrating for me. ultimately it led me to take my P-car to real race tracks for two seasons.
2). i was at a Skip Barber event in October at Laguna Seca. one thing they taught us, which i saw as absent in the Corvette driver who wrecked, was that as soon as you feel the car begin to spin out of control, depress the clutch and MASH the brakes. maybe this technique would have saved the driver from hitting the wall.
Luke Warmwater
Permanent Vacation
If you wanna slide in a straight line...
All split second reactions as well right so if it's not close to instinctual your already toast.
All split second reactions as well right so if it's not close to instinctual your already toast.