Ying/Yang - Ford GT and UGR TT Gallardo
- Thread starter HIRISC
- Start date
Gentlemen,
While Ray did drive his yellow GT to dinner at the VIR Rally and Mark's FGT is (sort of) street legal as well, neither one has a stock interior, no outside rear view mirrors, aluminum seat pans, modified suspensions, and a host of other race mods in addition to the roll cage that makes it a bitch to get in and out. Mark's car doesn't even have a passenger seat. I believe both of those GTs have a license plate assigned to them but as a practacle matter they are not that streetable now.
The FGT has an advantage in mile events with its superior aerodynamics, lower drag, and 2 WD that consumes a lower % of engine HP. The FGT is more stable at extreem speed as well. The Gallardo's 4 WD is an advantage off the line and up to about 60 MPH. After that it's a power consuming liability.
On the street with varying road surfaces, lower speeds, and much shorter distances, the advantage swings strongly if favor of the 4WD Gallardo with its paddle shifters. I have watched a bunch of Ray and Mark H's mile runs and they don't come off the line hard, certainly not as quick as the built Gallardos. On Ray's 266 mph run in Florida he babied it off the line as no spare half shaft was available.
In short, at the Mile a 2000 HP FGT will almost certainly best a 2000 HP Gallardo. In a street race however (and I don't like or endorse street racing) quickness is limited more by traction than HP and 4WD is a huge advantage. That's my take on it.
Chip
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Hopefully an Underground customer will step up and do what it takes to compete at the mile. I am not predicting an outcome but I for one love to see the competition.
I personally do not want to cage my SL to run the mile nor do I want the headaches that go along with running a car at 1750+ whp.
I personally do not want to cage my SL to run the mile nor do I want the headaches that go along with running a car at 1750+ whp.
Underground Racing at the Texas Mile
Gentlemen,
Underground Racing customers have competed at the Mile. At one event this orange Lambo beat Ray by 1 MPH and was the fastest car. It was destroyed at the Texas Mile as well during this accident. Sporting about 2000 HP it had several incidents with loss of control before the big one shown here. After this run the Gallardo fans seem to have lost their enthusiasm for trying to best the FGT at the Mile.
Chip
[video=youtube;yS1NU6xjTSY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yS1NU6xjTSY[/video]
Gentlemen,
Underground Racing customers have competed at the Mile. At one event this orange Lambo beat Ray by 1 MPH and was the fastest car. It was destroyed at the Texas Mile as well during this accident. Sporting about 2000 HP it had several incidents with loss of control before the big one shown here. After this run the Gallardo fans seem to have lost their enthusiasm for trying to best the FGT at the Mile.
Chip
[video=youtube;yS1NU6xjTSY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yS1NU6xjTSY[/video]
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Fast Freddy
GPS'D 225 MPH
this TT Gallardo runs 251 mph in the mile with 1500 whp :cool
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8K3Nk3PghU&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8K3Nk3PghU&feature=plcp
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MarkH
GT Owner
Since everyone seems to be talking about my car and not all the facts are correct, let me try and clear a few things up here. First and foremost, I do not street race and see no sense when there are plenty of perfectly good tracks/airstrips etc around to SAFELY show the speed of ones car. Trying to go 250mph or whatever speed you are trying to accomplish with any car and not having a cage and all the possible safety gear is asking for trouble. I believe someone posted it in this thread about an orange Gallardo at the mile crashing, without the cage in that vehicle, he probably would not be here today. NO doubt, my car has a cage and under the build cicumstances Hennessey Performance would not agree to build me such a car without one. Now I wasnt real happy about that but looking back, it was the correct decision and the smartest thing I ever did. These cars were never made to achieve such power levels they are achieving and it is just a matter of time before something goes wrong out there on the street. No doubt, in my younger years I thought street racing was the way to go but with kids and a family I now realize what dangers that puts others in for no reason.
Now I am off my soapbox on street racing and back to the misinformation about my car. My car is not a purposely built car just for the mile, I did see how much fun Ray was having at the first Texas Mile event and wanted to see what we could do. Ray's car is the baddest car out there and I for one understand what it takes to make a GT do what he did and my hats off to Ray. My car has stock suspension, stock transmission, stock rear end, air conditioning, radio, and a passenger seat. The car does have a set of turbos, bulilt motor, motec, and a cage for safety. If you classify this as a racecar, so be it. I enjoy the car and wouldnt have it any other way. People can talk about Gallardos making 1500rwph, GT's making 1500rwhp and GTR's making 1300rwhp and so on and so on but lets all be honest, NONE of these cars are driven 100,000 miles at these levels like you would a car bought off the lot. Is my GT a daily driver, NO it is not, can it be driven on the street, yes it can and it was driven to Cars and Coffee last weekend in Houston for the car show. I have been in this game of street car vs race car since my early days of drag racing vipers back in '96. The funny thing is the story is always the same, when your not the best in the game being played, they always seem to try and create another game in which they can be the best. At the end of all of this, there is alaways someone that is going to be faster and always someone with more money. Enjoy your cars and enjoy the luxury of life that allows us to play with cars like the Ford GT.
See you at the track......
Now I am off my soapbox on street racing and back to the misinformation about my car. My car is not a purposely built car just for the mile, I did see how much fun Ray was having at the first Texas Mile event and wanted to see what we could do. Ray's car is the baddest car out there and I for one understand what it takes to make a GT do what he did and my hats off to Ray. My car has stock suspension, stock transmission, stock rear end, air conditioning, radio, and a passenger seat. The car does have a set of turbos, bulilt motor, motec, and a cage for safety. If you classify this as a racecar, so be it. I enjoy the car and wouldnt have it any other way. People can talk about Gallardos making 1500rwph, GT's making 1500rwhp and GTR's making 1300rwhp and so on and so on but lets all be honest, NONE of these cars are driven 100,000 miles at these levels like you would a car bought off the lot. Is my GT a daily driver, NO it is not, can it be driven on the street, yes it can and it was driven to Cars and Coffee last weekend in Houston for the car show. I have been in this game of street car vs race car since my early days of drag racing vipers back in '96. The funny thing is the story is always the same, when your not the best in the game being played, they always seem to try and create another game in which they can be the best. At the end of all of this, there is alaways someone that is going to be faster and always someone with more money. Enjoy your cars and enjoy the luxury of life that allows us to play with cars like the Ford GT.
See you at the track......
MTV8
GT Owner
Thanks for checking in on this thread. You are one of the few people that understand what goes into running at these levels. I agree 110% on the safety issue. I was at the mile the day the orange gallardo wrecked and I was sick from watching it and amazed that Richard walked away. The cage saved his life - plain and simple.
Fast enough.
:thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup
I stand corrected. I didn't remember seeing a passenger seat in your GT at the 2011 Texas Mile. When I watched Sean's contortionist move to get into the car above the roll bar and around the helmet brace I wondered if I would be able to get into it at all! :lol As I looked it over the aluminum seat that Sean used looked like it was molded to his body and the combination of the helmet brace, no outside mirrors, and the exhaust exiting where the license plate would normally go made it look purpose built to me. When you drive it on the street do you put the outside rear view mirrors back on and do you put take the helmet brace off? That has to be a big hit at your local cars & coffee.
Chip
:thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup
I stand corrected. I didn't remember seeing a passenger seat in your GT at the 2011 Texas Mile. When I watched Sean's contortionist move to get into the car above the roll bar and around the helmet brace I wondered if I would be able to get into it at all! :lol As I looked it over the aluminum seat that Sean used looked like it was molded to his body and the combination of the helmet brace, no outside mirrors, and the exhaust exiting where the license plate would normally go made it look purpose built to me. When you drive it on the street do you put the outside rear view mirrors back on and do you put take the helmet brace off? That has to be a big hit at your local cars & coffee.
Chip
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Sinovac
GT Owner
It's all good. Car forums are just soap operas for men :lol. I enjoyed the photos and the discussion. This is the most civil forum I know of, with the possible exception of this one: http://www.buddhismwithoutboundaries.com/
andymlow
GT Owner
Jason may correct me on this but it was my impression from wandering around his shop and asking questions that the FGT TT was done on a bone stock block and that the Gallardo TT needed engine modifications to handle the power increase. I wonder if any of these high horsepower Lambo's that "can handle" xxxx HP are really only handling it after major modifications to the block.
Black GT
GT Owner
- Jan 2, 2006
- 771
Our Ford GTs come stock with forged internals and designed for boost very strong bottom end! Thx Ford! With the Gallardo it was designed NA with lots of RPM. So for over 1000hp at the wheels you have to have a rebuild with rods and pistons designed for boost.
Stock block is good up to around 1000hp. The tranny is good to around 1350-1400. Both very respectable numbers for factory pieces on a somewhat mass produced vehicle.
Exactly. Rods and pistons on Gallardo engine are not designed for boost. The stock crank and block were used in the engine that dyno'd over 1900whp though.
Ford way over-built the FGT engine when it came out. Too bad Chevy can't figure this out.
Atomic,
Are you referring to a Ford GT stock block or a Gallardo stock block here?
Chip
'soap operas for men'.. LOL. Yes.
Jason's shop may build them differently, but my 2nd hand info re the UGR Gallardo's is that the engine is built on the stage 2 (+/- 1100whp on C16), stage 3 (1250whp on C16) and more-built on their R+ (1500+whp) packages.
The bolt on kit makes 850whp on C16 on a stock engine.
In that respect, it seems the FGT engine is good for more power on the stock block (or UGR is conservative).
I believe Eric is referring to the Gallardo.
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Hennessey Performance
GT Owner
- Mar 15, 2006
- 767
Camo GT could just as easily run 257.7 mph in the mile with stock seats as it could with a dedicated racing seat. The seat was simply installed to give the driver the additional safety and security just in case. The debate of street car vs race car will always be an interesting topic of discussion. The reality is that if you want to compete at real events like Bonneville, Texas Mile, Houston Mile, etc. then you have to run the required safety equipment. Simple as that.
Safety issues are not usually considered modifications. Fire suppression systems, electrical power off switches, safety harnesses, Nomex racing suits, Snell approved helmets, roll cages, tire age, racing seats, etc. are usually either mandated by the event organization, or are implemented by owners. I wouldn't want to compete in organizations that do not promote safety.