The End of the FGT (and Supercars) in Sight!


AlohaGT

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Jul 13, 2007
1,596
Honolulu, HI
It is according to this author and others. We've discussed this before--another interesting perspective.

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The goverment is ready to take the gasoline out of car enthusiasts' veins.

There's only one thing to say about a Corvette that can top 200 mph, or a Cadillac sedan that makes the muscle cars of the '60s seem like a bunch of wimps: Enjoy it while it lasts. This golden age of horsepower may be coming to an end, at least in the gas-guzzling manner to which we've become accustomed.

An initial stroll through the recent auto show in Detroit might convince you that nothing has changed. GM was touting the Chevrolet Corvette ZR1, a 620-horsepower 200-mph monster that's simply the fastest production car in GM's history. Next door at the Cadillac display, the CTS-V sport sedan was flexing its 550-horsepower muscles.

Even squeaky-clean Toyota — ignoring recent environmental backlash over guzzlers such as its Tundra pickup — offered the 500-plus horsepower Lexus LF-A roadster. This Tokyo demon, heading to showrooms next year, should also break the 200-mph barrier.

These hard-drinking machines might convince you that automakers are still partying like it's 1999, when gas cost around $1.20 a gallon. But just under the Detroit show's surface, something else was brewing. And it wasn't high-octane unleaded.

Read: Gasoline's New Math: Miles Per Dollar

New rules will force the car kings to shift their focus. Revised CAFE standards require automakers to raise the average mileage of their car and truck fleets to 35 mpg by 2020. Proposed pollution standards in the U.S. and Europe may force even more dramatic increases. And if California wins the right in court to regulate global-warming emissions, you might just kiss your super-powered car goodbye — at least those that rely solely on gasoline.

In Europe the government and greens are proposing carbon-dioxide targets so strict that, if passed, not a single gas-burning model on sale today — including hybrids like the Toyota Prius — would pass muster.

The situation recalls the end of the first muscle-car era, which left Boomers shedding tears for their beloved GTOs, Shelby Mustangs and Hemi 'Cudas. In the early '70s, the first-ever tailpipe standards were a critical step toward cleaning up smoggy cities, but they also helped strangle the muscle car. It took two decades and a serious dose of engineering Viagra before cars recovered their potency.

The unfortunate side effect is that the average car today slurps more gasoline than it did 20 years ago. Cars became vastly quicker and more powerful. And of course, Americans switched en masse to SUVs.

Read: Fuel Economy: Then and Now

For anyone — including myself — with a need for speed, the longtime cliché is that they have gasoline in their veins. But a century's worth of shooting-up has put us where we are now, trying to kick a national addiction to oil.

As a result, the Motown show also featured enough green cars to stock a Sierra Club parking lot. On display was Toyota's hybrid A-BAT concept pickup and General Motors' latest hybrids, including a plug-in Saturn Vue SUV that's coming in 2010. Mercedes, VW and Honda hyped their high-mileage diesel cars that can even meet California's tough pollution rules.

Tellingly, the show also saw carmakers backing away from the thrilling-but-thirsty V8 engine that's as much a part of American culture as rock and roll. GM deep-sixed a $300 million project to develop a new V8, with Vice Chairman Bob Lutz saying that new fuel-economy rules directly sparked the move. Ford plans to drop V8s from several models, replacing them with turbocharged V6 and four-cylinder engines that go farther on a gallon.

If all that doesn't have you seeing the writing on the wall, you'd better schedule an eye exam. Still, if there's a difference between today's golden age of performance and the '60s original, it's the ability of technology to ride to the rescue.

Discuss: Do you think the new regulations will really mean the end of high-powered cars or will technology come to the rescue once again?

At the Detroit show, I asked Lutz — the GM car czar who famously inspired the Dodge Viper while at Chrysler — whether this was the last hurrah for horsepower. And while Lutz has become a vocal supporter of hybrids, electric cars and alternative fuels, he said that cars like the Corvette would still find their niche. "At the height of the vegetarian craze, the grocery stores are still selling New York steaks," Lutz said.

Lutz's point was that some people will always find a way to go fast. But the future does look bleak for speed machines powered by gasoline. While it's too early to predict which fuels will be winners and losers, it's certain that there will be multiple players. Half the new cars sold in Europe run on clean diesel, and that impressive technology is finally on its way here.

Mercedes showed off a sumptuous diesel-hybrid S-Class sedan that delivers 44 mpg. Audi will almost certainly bring us a diesel version of its spectacular R8 sports car, combining 500 horsepower with a respectable 24 mpg.

Energy experts agree that the transition to alternative fuels will take decades. There will still be gas pumps 30 and 40 years from now. Car lovers will still be able to cruise their classic internal combustion machines, whether it's a '32 Ford Deuce Coupe, a '57 Chevy or today's hottest rides.

But the days of guzzling gas as quickly as you can hose it into your tank are over. Looking back 30 years from now, we'll know it was not only the right move, but the only move.
 

Kirby Vieira

GT Owner/B.o.D
Mark IV Lifetime
Sep 22, 2005
1,768
Atlanta
This is oh so true, but until it arrives, we continue to be kids in a candy store as benefactors of the most incredible "go fast" time in history.:cheers
 

Joehand1

Tungsten GT Owner
Sep 20, 2007
599
Hattiesburg, MS, USA
Kirby is correct, at no other time in the history of automobiles will there be such muscle and speed, we are very lucky indeed to have one of the fastest machines that ever will be built for public roads. :banana:banana:banana:banana
 

OCPETE

GT Owner
Nov 20, 2006
490
Killer Dana, CA
Didn't Uncle Sam and the insurance industry basically kill muscle cars, (Mine included), in the mid 70's until like 10 years ago when technology started again producing more efficient, high HP, machines again for the yuppie masses?

There will always be a market for American HotRods, everything ebbs and flows and if one ever asks "How much", well then you can't afford it. :cheers
 

Mark06GT

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
This is one of the reasons I've got a deposit in for a 2009 Tesla Roadster. It's not in the same class as my GT, but the 100% torque from 0 to 6,000 rpm should keep me smiling.
 

AlohaGT

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Jul 13, 2007
1,596
Honolulu, HI
This is one of the reasons I've got a deposit in for a 2009 Tesla Roadster. It's not in the same class as my GT, but the 100% torque from 0 to 6,000 rpm should keep me smiling.

Photos and write up when you get it!
 

Bill Oxley

GT Owner
Jun 15, 2006
138
Denver area
Didn't Uncle Sam and the insurance industry basically kill muscle cars, (Mine included), in the mid 70's until like 10 years ago when technology started again producing more efficient, high HP, machines again for the yuppie masses?

I remember in the late '60s thinking there will never be fast cars again!

It will probably run the cycle again, but, I'm probably too old to see the other end of the cycle on the next go around.

The GT is an amazing car, and probably always will be, but you have to wonder in maybe another 40 years!
 

AlohaGT

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Jul 13, 2007
1,596
Honolulu, HI
I remember in the late '60s thinking there will never be fast cars again!

It will probably run the cycle again, but, I'm probably too old to see the other end of the cycle on the next go around.

The GT is an amazing car, and probably always will be, but you have to wonder in maybe another 40 years!

Another 40 years, guess I'm out as well. :frown
 

BlackICE

GT Owner
Nov 2, 2005
1,416
SF Bay Area in California
+1

I will be lucky if I am still walking, let alone driving 40, years from now.
 

nthfinity

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2006
457
South East MI
Already, every manufacturer major in the world has abandoned next generation engines... from Italy, Germany, England, USA, etc. .... and have even announced the cancellation of various cars due to the new government regulations interfering with the market.

The few sportscars that remain won't be as "mass produced" to maintain CAFE... the only way around it is to increase production of the cars that people don't want... and those cars will sit on dealer lots until those lots are full... then they will begin filling up the lots of the manufacturer.... the unsold cars at Chrysler of 2007 will seem small by comparison.

The only way the US manufaucterers... and perhaps even BMW/Mercedes/ Porsche will stay in business in a reasonable way is through government subsidies... not unlike the rail system here .... or the government forcing that the people buy cars that we just simply don't want to. The beginning of the end of the greatest symbol of personal freedom in the world....

This is one of the reasons I've got a deposit in for a 2009 Tesla Roadster. It's not in the same class as my GT, but the 100% torque from 0 to 6,000 rpm should keep me smiling.

No offense meant by this... but what are your thoughts about the original claims that the Tesla would do 4s to 60mph, and go 200 miles.... when suddenly a few weeks back, it was publicized that its no faster then a Mazda Miata to 60, and heavier then one as well... and unable to do the traditional "sunday drive through the woods" without recharging?

In the last 100 years of electric cars, little has changed in the technology, except the size of the circuitry and battery packs.... efficiency and storage capability is nearly identical to what it was 40 years ago even....
 
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SYCO GT

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Sep 9, 2006
4,975
California
+1

I will be lucky if I am still walking, let alone driving 40, years from now.

Ah, but knowing now, that 40 years from now, you will be able to cross the magical portal from home through garage, and to gaze upon the Ford GT with at least one good eye, it will all be worth it...Or to know that your child will be enjoying the very same machine you owned from day one with a pride and joy that matches your very own...

:thumbsup
 

cobrar1339

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Feb 2, 2006
956
Diamond Bar, Ca
I recall the first great downturn in performance cars all too well.

71 was the last great year for muscle at Ford and most others. Ford had the 429scj Mach 1, very under rated Boss 351 ( fastest 1/4 of the bunch) considered a bit big and ugly to many.

72 you could sill get a R code Mustang, the Boss 351 in std trim but with low compression, no more big blocks. Hp down from 300 to 250.

73 was even more of the same and add crash bumpers. HP down to 190. added weigh was on the weigh.

We had to install that NOX device to smog our older cars.

74 we were dead in the water, the best deal then was the 260z-280z. Porsche was building awful cars. Not much to write home about from anyone else. We saw the Mustang II, OMG what a let down. My dad had a dealership then and ordered a very nice one for me. I turned him down, he was so sad.

I bought a 69 GT350 and stood in the odd/even gas lines. If your plate ended even you could buy gas on even numbered days and vise versa.
Even after the embargo ended, the we never got back to normal.

To top it off, the speed limit was reduced to 55mph and stayed like that for almost two decades. But it did produce the Sammy Hagar ( Fellow GT owner) car guy hit "I Can't drive 55".

Ford was THE ONE that brought back performance to the US in 1982-83 with the 5.0 HO 4bbl Holley motor and 210hp. I bought it on the spot in 83 after being able to finally burn rubber in new detroit iron for the first time in 10 years. The SVO mustang was the tech leader in 83 with a 2.3L 210 hp turbo. Lots of trick suspension parts and the best handling fox body built IMO.

1983 was also the only year GM did not build the Corvette. In 84 the C4 arrived to much fanfare, sexy, fast for the day, but troubled. A retool in 85 got us TPI and 150mph for the first time in a GM. Sold the Mustang and bought one.

The build was on from this point, performance was back for US. This was the turning point for Supercar Redemption as well. Countach was born.

So we have enjoyed a 25 year build up in performance. Pretty amazing what technology has done for us. We are fortunate to have the best of breed.:thumbsup :thumbsup:thumbsup

What I find really stupid though :bored, is that I paid a gas guzzler tax on a GT, that still gets better mileage than the 8,000,000 F series trucks, Explorer's Expeditions and the Excursion...and even the Tundra/Titan's that have none. Not to mention, that the avg. SUV sees more miles in 3 months than we will see in 5 years. I am far from being a tree hugger, but it goes to show how jacked up and bought off our politicians are. :bs
 

AlohaGT

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Jul 13, 2007
1,596
Honolulu, HI
Everyone - these ARE the good old days! :cheers:banana:cheers
 

Mark06GT

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Tesla Roadster

No offense meant by this... but what are your thoughts about the original claims that the Tesla would do 4s to 60mph, and go 200 miles.... when suddenly a few weeks back, it was publicized that its no faster then a Mazda Miata to 60, and heavier then one as well... and unable to do the traditional "sunday drive through the woods" without recharging?

In the last 100 years of electric cars, little has changed in the technology, except the size of the circuitry and battery packs.... efficiency and storage capability is nearly identical to what it was 40 years ago even....

No offense taken. I’ve considered the same things.

Here’s my rationale for buying a Tesla (sorry it’s so long)

1) I don’t usually drive more than 200 miles a week with the longest trip being no more than 35 miles. If my family needs to go long distance, we have a Highlander we can all pile into and drive wherever we want to. So for 50 weeks of the year, I could use no gasoline. The limited range of an electric car is definitely a drawback, but I’ve read in a number of places that 98% of Americans do not drive more than 35 miles a day. That’s well within the Tesla’s range.

2) The 0-60 performance isn’t super critical to me. It would be nice if Tesla worked out their transmission problems and went back to their 2-speed version with better 0-60 numbers. I’m still hopeful that they will. I’ve read a number of articles that say they’re still working on it with Ricardo and will retrofit early models with 2-speed transmissions once they get the problems worked out. I don’t think of the Tesla as a track car (convertible w/o roll cage), so even if I can’t get to 60 in 4 seconds, it should still be fun to drive.

3) Battery technology will get better, which means at some point, we’ll be able to replace the original 450 kg battery pack with something lighter that generates more power. There are lots of clever people out there (many of them on this forum) and aftermarket upgrades always seem to pop up. I’m curious why you think batteries haven’t improved since 1968. I’m pretty sure they have, but I don’t have any data on that.

4) There’s virtually no maintenance on the car. No oil changes, no air filter, etc. Battery life is predicted to be between 75,000 and 100,000 miles.

5) I like to root for underdogs. Starting a car company is a gutsy move and I respect it. I also like that the company is based in the US (even though the parts come from all over). I wish Tesla good luck and I’m willing to plunk down a chunk of change to help them on their way. I also like their unconventional business model: start with an expensive and exclusive car and then work their way into other markets.

6) A lot of people talk about reducing our dependence on foreign oil. This is something I can do that might help.

7) As much as I like my GT, I’m mad at GM, Chrysler, & Ford for not being more proactive with alternative fuels. You’ve probably all read the concerns about the downside to bio-fuels. The evidence that they will cause more problems than they solve is pretty convincing. I don’t see any long term future for them. I also think hydrogen and fuel cells are never going to pan out. In fact, I’m convinced that the biggest reason these technologies are being pursued is because the oil companies want to keep their filling stations open. I really hope Tesla takes off and gives Detroit and the oil industry a kick in the pants.

8) The car is sexy.
 
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Kirby Vieira

GT Owner/B.o.D
Mark IV Lifetime
Sep 22, 2005
1,768
Atlanta
When they get the performance into the 3's, there will be one in my garage where it will be retrofitted with Heffner exhaust tips and a hidden audio box which, at the push of a button, will play some high HP exhaust tunes. :biggrin I find much of the fun of driving GT's and other modern muscle cars is the background "music". :cheers
 

gtjoey

Keep Smiling - GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Oct 14, 2005
3,454
Everyone forgets, do you remember the #1 car club petition to the u.s. goverment 30 years ago? :willy all over hemmings ect.

People were picketing to keep LEAD IN THE GAS, REMEMBER!?!
YOU CANT DESTROY MY CARS ENGINE, ECT.
OBVIOUSLY OUR PREMONKEY BRAINS EVENTUALLY FIGURED OUT THAT LEAD IN THE AIR FROM EXHAUST, THAT WAS GOING BACK TO THE WATER STREAM IN THE FORM OF RAIN, WASNT AS HEALTHY AS A FRESH COLORADO DAY WALK IN THE PARK!:eek
Before we were all born , before rush limbaugh,hannity and colmbs

THE GREAT BOB GRANT SAID IT BEST, 35 YEARS AGO!!!!!!
UNTIL THE LAST DROP OF OIL LEAVES THE GROUND AND NOW WE PAY TERRORISTS TO PAY OFF OUR DEFAULTING HOUSING MARKET:frown GAS IS DOOMED BUT HERE TO STAY , AT LEAST TIL LITTLE DBK MAKES IT TO COLLEGE.
AGAIN EVERY YEAR MY FRIEND COME TO OUR CAR SHOW WITH HIS " 1908" YES 1908 GENERAL ELECTRIC CAR!!!! STILL WORKS ON THE SAME DAMN BATTERY, HHHHHMMMMM SO IM WITH ALOHA, TODAY IS THE GREATEST DAY OF MY LIFE, IM ENJOYING BEFORE THE WORLD BLOWS UP.!!!!!! DBK/ NICHOLAS ITS YOUR GENERATIONS TURN TO SAVE THE WORLD, ENJOY!!!!!!!!!!!! ITS ALL YOURS!!!!!!!!!!!!:biggrin GTJOEY 1314 WITH LEAD IN MY VEINS:eek HEY MAN I FEEL LIKE CAMILLO:lol
 

AtomicGT

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Apr 12, 2006
3,032
Los Angeles
AlohaGT,

This is a free market country and if there is a way to make money selling a super car, with mods, I am sure it is not the end completely of an era. Way to many car guys out there and a market that will support new technology. We will get better engines once someone figures out a better mouse trap. Socialist legislatures can pass laws, but with a little Yankee ingenuity and a market, you can expect something will come along. I am in the market for an 08 Viper to keep the muscle urges quited or manageable.

LA to Vegas Ford GT Rally plans in their infancy but soon to blossom once states are released for Vegas III.

:banana
 

Mark06GT

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
When they get the performance into the 3's, there will be one in my garage where it will be retrofitted with Heffner exhaust tips and a hidden audio box which, at the push of a button, will play some high HP exhaust tunes. :biggrin I find much of the fun of driving GT's and other modern muscle cars is the background "music". :cheers

We’ve got people thinking of aftermarket ideas already!
You could have a menu on the touch screen for engine sounds:

• Ford GT
o Stock
o Heffner GT-700
o Heffner GT-750
o Heffner GT-1000
o Hennessey GT TT 1000
o Hennessey GT700
o ...
• Ferrari
o …
 

nthfinity

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2006
457
South East MI
Vehicle tax for registration based on engine displacement.

I was really hoping to find this false on snopes.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/bil...Bills/6900.pdf

http://echo.bluehornet.com/hostedema...d203747450&CID
 
M

Mark O

Guest
When they get the performance into the 3's, there will be one in my garage


You'll need dilithium crystals to go that fast! :biggrin