So.... anybody ready to start talking about alternative gauges for the FGT?
- Thread starter mardyn
- Start date
BlackICE
GT Owner
My belief is the inputs to the Ford gauges are CAN bus messages, so significant work has to be done to decode the message formats and a micro controller would have to be designed to read the messages and then drive the aftermarket gauges. This combined with need to match the stock look will drive the price up. Of course some could not worry about the look of the gauges and rewire the car with new sensors to drive the gauges.
2112
Blue/white 06'
They make the Gauges work with all the high end Mercury Marine smart tech equipment so I don't think this is necessarily out of their league.
http://www.mercuryracing.com/accessories/vesselview.php
Plus, I believe they get the guts from Autometer so they probably can upgrade the circuitry (from our level of quality) and possibly configure to work with our equipment. They can make them look any way you want and that includes as close to stock as possible. The hardest one being the tach with the flat bottom on the beauty ring.
Might not hurt to ask. 40-60 sets would be a pretty nice order for this smallish sized company.
http://www.mercuryracing.com/accessories/vesselview.php
Plus, I believe they get the guts from Autometer so they probably can upgrade the circuitry (from our level of quality) and possibly configure to work with our equipment. They can make them look any way you want and that includes as close to stock as possible. The hardest one being the tach with the flat bottom on the beauty ring.
Might not hurt to ask. 40-60 sets would be a pretty nice order for this smallish sized company.
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Im sure we can come up with a EE guy that can reverse engineer the system - legally.
BlackICE
GT Owner
I don't recall having to sign a license agreement or NDA when purchasing the car, do you?
Reverse engineering has been challenged many times in the past. Motorola & Intel fought the process viciously early on. It happens more times than people know.
BlackICE
GT Owner
SCT, Diablo, HP tuners, etc have all done some "reverse engineering" on Ford and other makes.
A gray area for sure in many cases. One can always debate what is "reverse engineering."
Short answer is No. The CAN (controller area network) communicates with various other systems like the Power Control Module (PCM) in the vehicle which would require a detailed wiring diagram to find where the signal comes from. We could by pass the instrument control module if we knew what serial data signal from the PCM is used for each gauge and replace with a non CAN gauge. Problem is that we don't know how interrelated the nodes of the instrument control module are. For example the signal for the tach may also be used for the air bag. No flame please that was just an example.
Usually if there is a problem in the CAN the car throws a diagnostic code. I don't recall anyone with gauge problems throwing a trouble code. This points back to a defective gauge not the electronics system. A defective voltage in a CAN system would cause more than just gauge problems.
Just an additional thought that hopefully sheds light on the mysterious gauge issues. Since the gauges in a CAN system require a certain amount of voltage to keep their memory alive, a low battery can cause some issues with the gauges not coming on line. In that case the system has to reset or turn off the ignition and restart with the correct voltage will bring a gauge on line UNLESS it's a bad gauge.
The gauges cannot be repaired as the failing part is not available even to electronics shops.
Jimmy
You hit the nail on the head. I don't believe I've seen an aftermarket gauge that can read a CAN bus message so you would need some interface to decode and drive the new gauge.
Jimmy
BlackICE
GT Owner
Yes, a Micro-controller like a PIC can read the CAN bus and then it can drive regular analog gauges. But much work would need to be done at a probable loss.
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A ship on the horizon.....
Help may be on the way to our gauge weary GT owners. I participated today in
a good conversation with two principals from a specialty gauge manufacturer
that may be interested in taking up our plight. They've been following this issue
for a while now and can see a clear opportunity to expand into this market.
Although they now primarily supply the automotive aftermarket, they are also very familiar with Ford's
CANbus protocols that drive our dash clusters and seem to have the expertise and desire to get involved.
I'll limit my commentary for now as we wait for details to further evolve. I also expect that they'll become
an authorized supporting vendor to our FGT community as we move forward.
Keep your fingers crossed....
mardyn
Help may be on the way to our gauge weary GT owners. I participated today in
a good conversation with two principals from a specialty gauge manufacturer
that may be interested in taking up our plight. They've been following this issue
for a while now and can see a clear opportunity to expand into this market.
Although they now primarily supply the automotive aftermarket, they are also very familiar with Ford's
CANbus protocols that drive our dash clusters and seem to have the expertise and desire to get involved.
I'll limit my commentary for now as we wait for details to further evolve. I also expect that they'll become
an authorized supporting vendor to our FGT community as we move forward.
Keep your fingers crossed....
mardyn
Joehand1
Tungsten GT Owner
i think i have the same gauge problem, but i am not sure. when i start the gt some and or all the gauges do not work. if this is the problem i have a cure.
i find if you fully depress the clutch and hold it then push in the start button and hold it then turn the key to start all my gauges work.
the first gauge to fail was the vacuum gauge, then sometimes the speedo, then sometimes the tach and so on, but always the vacuum gaugs.
let me know if it helps
i find if you fully depress the clutch and hold it then push in the start button and hold it then turn the key to start all my gauges work.
the first gauge to fail was the vacuum gauge, then sometimes the speedo, then sometimes the tach and so on, but always the vacuum gaugs.
let me know if it helps
FlagstaffGT
GT Owner
Hmmm, this could bypass handshake protocols and potential voltage variations and spikes during startup. How can we get this thread to those with dead gauges (where the needle has not actually fallen off the gauge spindle) to see if it reanimates the dead?
ViperJoe
GT Owner
GT35065
GT Owner