Pretty cool idea


K

kmillen

Well-known member
Jan 29, 2007
504
This is something I found while researching some parts for a new GT project we have been working on. It seems like a pretty neat idea and pretty inexpensive.

http://www.siliconeintakes.com/product_info.php?products_id=1227

You basically pack this box with about 20 pounds of ice and it chills the intercooler water/coolant even more before it goes into the manifold. Might be something worth looking into? We are working on a supercharger for another vehicle right now that we're going to use to test this out.
 
Thought Torrie already had a "killer chiller" offering.......
 
My brother inlaws would just remove the ice for their drinks. :rofl

John
 
This addition appears to be more focused on a drag race (short duration) application. Which would probably be fine for those owners who want to drag race their cars. The car will certainly do this but not really the car's primary design focus.

Being a mid engine design with long piping to the large front mounted convectionator, our car has a fairly large volume of intercooler working fluid which would limit the effectiveness of this system. In other words the ice melting will certainly lower the intercooler fluid temperature. And I suppose you would install the unit immediately ahead of the intercooler inlet flow, but if the exiting intercooler fluid temperature was still below ambient, the fluid would cool (or be heated back up) the pipe to the front of the vehicle and again be heated back up by the air-to-air intercooler convectionator.

Thus the intercooler recirculation "system" which the Ford team designed for our car to provide power benefits for long durations, actually would limit the usefulness of this ice box addition by heating the previously ice cooled fluid back up through the front mounted exchanger.
 
I if were doing this I would put it in the trunk and in the return after the heat exchanger. That way most of the heat would be taken out of the coolant and the ice would last longer and be more effective. The question would be.... will the ice last for 10 minutes of track time?
 
Indy is right. You can dump a full bag of ice in a turbo car with an ice box and it'll be gone by the time you reach the half mile mark. Could for a drag race, not practical for the street.
 
I definitely didn't mean this could be used for daily driving. I don't think that would be useful at all. But, it could help for the 1/4 mile runs or maybe even 1 mile runs.
 
Beach-GT said:
I if were doing this I would put it in the trunk and in the return after the heat exchanger. That way most of the heat would be taken out of the coolant and the ice would last longer and be more effective. The question would be.... will the ice last for 10 minutes of track time?
Click to expand...


Beach, not sure I understand your terms....
Is the "trunk" our FGT front compartment?
"...after the heat exchanger." Which heat exchanger are you talking about? The intercooler system has two, one in the front of the car to expell the heat the coolant gained through the second under the intake manifold...?

Either way under the thermal rigors of track use (even a short track) the ice in the box as shown would never make it 10 minutes. Just not an effective way of lowering inlet charge temperature but for only but very brief power applications.
 
Quiz, for those that don't believe Indy.

1. What is the input BTU load from compressing the air?
2. What is the BTUs per gram needed to for the phase change of ice to water?
3. What is the heat capacity of water?
4. What is the heat dissipation from the intercooler's front heat exchanger?

The problem is many people just don't do the math. This not only applies to engineering, but also to taxes and the economy! :ack
 
We have a larger reservoir with a large lid that replaces the factory water bottle. It holds two bags of ice and the lid is large enough to just dump the ice in. Realistically, you will turn two bags of ice into warm water in 1/4 mile. For the time the ice lasts it's worth about 50 rwhp.
 
Here's the Math

Ok ICE you made my get out my pencil and I thank you for your support. I was going on just intuition but sometimes you have to run the numbers to be sure. Here are your answers.

1. Input BTU load = 2163 Btu/min (ref SAE paper 2004-01-1257 Figure 14)
2. Water latent heat of fusion = 80 calories/gram
3. Heat capacity of intercooler water = 1.27 gal and 2754.0 Btu for fluid to go from 21.1°C to 71.1°C (160°F) intercooler design target temperature. See below.
4. Intercooler heat dissipation rate, assume equal to engine heat load input = 2163 Btu/min.

Assume:
Initial intercooler fluid circuit 1.27 gal water at 21.1°C (70F)
20 pounds (9071.8 g) ice at 0°C
Heat load into the intercooler = heat rejection rate of the cooling module at front of car.

To Find:
How long to melt the 20# of ice and bring fluid system up to 160°F target operating temperature.

Solution:
Heat necessary to melt ice at 0°C = 2880.1 Btu
Heat necessary to raise previous 20# ice water from 0°C to 21.1°C = 759.6 Btu
Heat necessary to raise previous 20# ice water and intercooler fluid from 21.1°C to 71.1°C = 2754.0 Btu

Total Btu’s = 2880.1 + 759.6 + 2754.0 = 6393.7 Btu

At input rate of 2163 Btu/min, ice will melt and resulting water and 1.27 gal of water in intercooler circuit will be at 71.1°C (160F) in

2.95 minutes.

This has numerous assumptions but is ballpark of what I would expect. Short duration effect and the cooling effectiveness continuously diminishes throughout the ~3 minutes. Thus the most hp gain in the first say minute and then after the ice melts and the intercooler water starts to increase it becomes increasingly less effective.
 
My head literally just exploded :lol
 
Dave, just show it to Jamal for a sanity check...

And to Dave's earlier comment on a Twin Turbo, the heat load in is SIGNIFICANTLY higher with this application and so the ice will melt realllll fast!
 
I wish we could limit him to 2.95 minutes like his wife does.
 
For Frank

Ok, I just know Frank is over at the library checking out Physics books to find a flaw in my ice melt calculations and the first thing he will point out is “Hey Indy, I don’t drive on the track at Wide Open Throttle (WOT) ALL the time like you assumed in your calculations! Come on! Get in touch with reality!!”

So to preempt his calculation evisceration, let me offer to modify the previous answer to be more realistic. The above 2.95 minutes did assume the maximum heat load of 2163 Btu/min (or WOT) applied continuously. We can refine this…

Let’s say you are tracking your GT with the following engine duty cycle:

30% of the time at WOT as you accelerate out of turns and down straight away(s)
30% of the time at 75% WOT
30% of the time at 50% WOT and
10% of the time at 10% WOT as you decelerate into turns.

Engine power demand does effect the heat load into the intercooler....

Thus for Frank’s benefit-
30% at heat input rate of 2163 Btu/min (WOT)
30% at 1622.3 Btu/min
30% at 1081.5 Btu/min and
10% at 216.3 Btu/min

At those rates solve for time to total 6393.7 total Btu’s needed to raise the system temperature to 160F…

4.32 minutes based on the above more realistic track duty cycle.

Is that better Frank…?
 
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OUCH! Mine head exploded also!

Indy lost me after Input. I wish I had some of those brain cells back from the sixties. My parents warned me this might happen.

I honestly did use to run a cool can on a 66 mustang drag car in the early years and it was good for a 1/10th or two.

I like John's inlaws use nowadays. Think I will use it now.


Larry
 
So to answer the question... no, you can't fry bacon on the moon.

that is all.
 
Indy GT said:
...Is that better Frank…?
Click to expand...

I love it! :thumbsup :thumbsup

:lol :lol :lol

:cheers :beer2: :beer2: :cheers

(I follwed the whole thing - very precise!)

:lol :lol
 
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Indy, I think your calculations make sense, but you have yet to factor in relative humidity and air pressure. I believe your math is probably based on STP (standard temperature and pressure).
 
fjpikul said:
Indy, I think your calculations make sense, but you have yet to factor in relative humidity and air pressure. I believe your math is probably based on STP (standard temperature and pressure).
Click to expand...

Spending late night on Wikipedia I see.......

Business slow Frank?
 
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