May contain up to 10% Ethanol


GTFUN

GT Owner
Aug 19, 2009
271
Atlanta,Ga
Is there any difference in the performance of our engines using gas with ethanol mixed in?

I was happy to see a Sunoco station open up locally
but their gas has that "may contain up to 10% ethanol" disclaimer.

What do you performance guru's say?
 
This is what the cars are formulated to run on. Just make sure the octane number (RON) is 91 or higher.
 
Can't avoid the 10% ethanol, its "green" :ack. The only possible downside of this mixture is for those that have custom tunes with aggressive a/f ratios and adaptive learning turned off. 10% ethanol will run a tad leaner than 100% gasoline. If your fuel system can take and you have a custom tune, running 100% ethanol will boost your power over regular pump gas.

WARNING a stock FGT fuel system cannot do this.
 
Ethanol has a higher octane but less BTUs. I don't think, technically spealking, it is capable of more power, but with less detonation, you can tune your car more aggressively.

Correct?

I hate the ethanol for it's poor stability issues myself. Doesn't it also screw up rubber lined fuel line?

But it makes us feel better for not driving a Prius.

:usa
 
Ethanol has a higher octane but less BTUs. I don't think, technically spealking, it is capable of more power, but with less detonation, you can tune your car more aggressively.

Correct?

I hate the ethanol for it's poor stability issues myself. Doesn't it also screw up rubber lined fuel line?

But it makes us feel better for not driving a Prius.

:usa

Yes, less BTU per volume, so you need to up the volume injected for a given airflow. If you do that you have not only more octane, but better charge cooling (heat of evaporation is greater) and because ethanol has oxygen you get more energy at the equivalent airflow compared to gasoline, kind of like nitrious.
 
When running in the midwest, I got about a 10% increase in fuel milage when running the ethanol mixture, and cooler engine temperature, compared to the 91 unleaded fuel available in California and west of the Rocky Mountains. Likely due to the oxygen atom in the alcohol radical.
 
You can also drive to your local frat house and syphon the tank for a righteous moonshine party.
 
When running in the midwest, I got about a 10% increase in fuel milage when running the ethanol mixture, and cooler engine temperature, compared to the 91 unleaded fuel available in California and west of the Rocky Mountains. Likely due to the oxygen atom in the alcohol radical.

Ralph-

This seems counter to what I would expect. As Ice correctly states, alcohols contain significantly less energy per unit volume than gasoline. In the extreme, think, if I mix water with my gasoline would I expect to get less performance? Certainly. But the alcohol industry has sold us on it’s “greenness” and championed legislation federally to allow our regular gasoline to be blended with up to 10% of this product. (They are now lobbying for higher concentrations as well).

For reference, since the energy content (BTU/Lbm) of pump grade gasoline is hard to quantify without specific testing and because many refining variables can affect this value, we can equate the energy content of gasoline to that of isooctane, 20,556 BTU/Lbm, higher. By contrast Methanol has an energy content of 9,770 BTU/Lbm, higher and Ethanol has a value of 12,780 BTU/Lbm, higher. Thus both blending alcohols bring less energy to the combustion party, resulting in less power output for a given volumetric fuel input. The mechanical efficiency of our engine is fixed by its design so I would expect that feeding the engine a fuel with less energy content would result in more fuel consumption for a given power output and thus less fuel mileage (at the same power conditions).

Ethanol (C2H5OH) as its molecular formula suggests does “carry” with it an Oxygen atom which helps provide more oxygen for a better combustion process. Ergo it is green because its use promotes a more complete combustion process and less unburned hydrocarbons when the exhaust valve opens to reject the products of combustion. And ethanol does carry a high octane rating (107 Research / 89 Motor) which resists combustion detonation but one can only capitalize on this if the ignition timing is advanced to take advantage of this attribute. I might note here for our readers that even though ethanol has a high octane rating it also has a significantly lower energy value thus exposing the widely held misconception that octane somehow means the fuel is more “powerful” (a myth by the gasoline producers to sell product) which is clearly not the case.

Without modifying an engine (which can and is done, note the Indy cars all run on alcohol for crash/fire protection and run 220+ mph) for a specific gasoline/ethanol mixture, the engine using a fuel without alcohol will make more power and deliver better performance than that same engine using a alcohol blended fuel.
 
So Mr. Engineer, would please explain iso-octane?

Octane: C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C

IsoOctane ? : C-C-C-C-C-C-C
\
C

Wouldn't this be more like iso-septane? Maybe you'd better go back and check your Friedels-Craft reactions.
 
Frank-

Thanks for always critiquing my posts for accuracy! And here I though no one had read the post.

You must have spent time looking up in your medical chemistry books the molecular structure of isooctane. Perhaps since this topic is best described in engineering terms relating to engine fuel discussions than the medical field, our readers should be given the correct structure depiction within a discussion on motor fuels.

Reproduced below is a more complete description of isooctane also known as 2,2,4 trimethyl pentane.

Hope this helps. And Ralph feel free to help Dr. Frank out as well.
 

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We have 1 Sunoco station in town that specifically gets gas without alcohol added. All the others have up to 10%. How they are able to do that I don't lnow but they advertise it and the owner says a special delivery comes to them. The price runs the same which in theory should be cheaper but the delivery cost must be higher.
 
I was in the Keys in April, and there were specific non ethanol pumps, but about a 50c difference if I recall it was 90 octane, must be a flroida deal. No such thing I am aware of here in MA (outside of 104, C16 etc...)
 
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Thank you IndyGT. I use iso-pentane a lot because of it's low freezing point, but the iso-carbon group is always on the second carbon in the chain, as explained in your text.
 
Doesn't it also screw up rubber lined fuel line?

No. Today's cars components are produced to be compatible with the ethanol blend fuels. In the older (I think pre 1980) vehicles (motorcycles included) some elastomer lines were not compatible and caused problems. Also, carburetors had non compatible components (neoprene) have problems too. So if you own a classic be careful if you do not know what material was used to restore the vehicle.

Isooctane is the common name and 2,2,4 trimethyl pentane is the true chemical IUPAC name. The prefix "iso-" is used if a single one-carbon branch is on the next-to-last carbon of a chain. If anyone cares.
 
Subscribed just cause I'm intrigued by all this.