I'm not happy with my tune


You might want to grab a copy of a book titled BUILDING 4.6/5.4L FORD HORSEPOWER ON THE DYNO BY RICHARD HOLDNER. In the book the author lists 20 or 30 of the hundreds and hundreds of different dyno comparisons that John Mihovetz has done on the the 4.6 and 5.4 engine including a 1400 hp 5.4 engine.

To say that you should go to Muscle Motors because they have a dyno defies logic.

I have had great experience with Jack at Muscle Motors, but John Mihovetz is probably in the top 3 Ford motor guys in the country. Ask Jack, ask Bob Ida, ask anybody who knows Ford Engines.

You have no idea who you are dealing with.

If anybody disagrees with me, please let me know.
 
With all the problems I've heard here and personally from other GT owners, it seems pretty clear to me that you don't simply buy a "tune". Way too many people having problems with them, and like this situation these "shelf" tunes have come from "respected" people in the industry. Simply have it done in person by a competent mechanic with as much experience on the car as possible. I agree for not choosing Muscle Motors just because they have their own brand new dyno, I'd choose them because they can do the job right. And they can, period. With that said, maybe go back to Accufab if you like, but the tune should be done in first person, not another "cooked" guess from a distance.

The GT GUYS installed the Heffner Tune and Pulley and the car ran like a charm. No custom dyno tuning was done. If I am not mistaken DBK among many others is running the same package I had. I posted the dyno sheet, 600 RWHP. It came out of the box and was perfect.

Now when I installed THE BIG WHIPPLE, Dustin installed the MAFia and his custom tune, car starts hot and cold perfectly, runs perfectly at all RPMs and makes 750rwhp. Dustin had my car for two days and on his dyno. Oh by the way,.. I learned yesterday from SHADOWMAN (who is doing detailed homework) that I am running a slighty bigger pulley than the biggest one generally available... there is a lot more horsepower available than I am running.
 
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Now when I installed THE BIG WHIPPLE, Dustin installed the MAFia and his custom tune, car starts hot and cold perfectly, runs perfectly at all RPMs and makes 750rwhp. Dustin had my car for two days and on his dyno. Oh by the way,.. I learned yesterday from SHADOWMAN (who is doing detailed homework) that I am running a slighty smaller pulley than the smallest one generally available... there is a lot more horsepower available than I am running.

Bony - you 'da man!!

I'm not sure I would agree that there's a a lot more HP available - especially when you validate that you are running a smaller pulley (i.e., more boost) than ones that are generally available.

750 RWHP would mean that your engine is in the realm of 900 HP at the crank.... but probably considerably higher in terms of the "work" being asked of it. Just spinning that 3.2L compressor at max rpm's is going to be chew'n more than 100 - 150HP.

So, in street tune (stock driveability and pump gas), I would say that you are "up there". The next steps would likely require a considerable octane boost and would start to have me worrying about stock internals.

Although considered by some to be more invasive, a turbo set-up would apply that effort of spinning the SC to the rear wheel HP (a gross over simplification) but mostly true. Roughly speaking, at the the same boost pressures the turbo set-up will yield ~100 more ponies at the wheels at roughly the same work effort being expended by the SC's motor.

Alll of this peak HP discussion is dangerously misleading however, because the REAL feeling of the car is in things like area under the curve. 'Cuda is on the right point in that the comparison of Whipple to Heffner (Turbo) to Kenne Belle should be a comparison of the shape of and total area under the curve. Show me two dynos and I can tell you which car will "feel" faster and what will "BE" faster - and they aren't always the same.....
 
Bony - you 'da man!!

I'm not sure I would agree that there's a a lot more HP available - especially when you validate that you are running a smaller pulley (i.e., more boost) than ones that are generally available.

750 RWHP would mean that your engine is in the realm of 900 HP at the crank.... but probably considerably higher in terms of the "work" being asked of it. Just spinning that 3.2L compressor at max rpm's is going to be chew'n more than 100 - 150HP.

So, in street tune (stock driveability and pump gas), I would say that you are "up there". The next steps would likely require a considerable octane boost and would start to have me worrying about stock internals.

Although considered by some to be more invasive, a turbo set-up would apply that effort of spinning the SC to the rear wheel HP (a gross over simplification) but mostly true. Roughly speaking, at the the same boost pressures the turbo set-up will yield ~100 more ponies at the wheels at roughly the same work effort being expended by the SC's motor.

Alll of this peak HP discussion is dangerously misleading however, because the REAL feeling of the car is in things like area under the curve. 'Cuda is on the right point in that the comparison of Whipple to Heffner (Turbo) to Kenne Belle should be a comparison of the shape of and total area under the curve. Show me two dynos and I can tell you which car will "feel" faster and what will "BE" faster - and they aren't always the same.....

GOOD MORNING KENDALL!!
Me so very bad, I just edited my post above, I was 180 degrees off, I am running a slightly larger puller than what is commercially available.
I have posted on several threads that Dustin told me to come back in a
couple of months of an upgrade.
My car hasn't been on the track, and I don't know if it every will be.
I do know how it feels, and I know I am very happy. As a point of information I am looking forward to seeing other dyno pulls posted as they become available.
Again, sorry for my mistake.
Cheers,
daniel
 
Whipple, sweeeeet upgrade. For the ease of installation and bang for buck, a tremendous product. The stock Gt cries out for more air.

I was just wondering if low rpm torque could be increased by tweeking the tune or using a different pulley.

I am not criticizing just analizing and trying to improve

Water injection without methanol could help with detonation suppression. Just an idea.
 
Water injection without methanol could help with detonation suppression. Just an idea.
But, where would you locate the water injectors, they should come after the intercooler?

BlackICE
 
they should come after the intercooler?

kind of hard when the intercooler is an integral part of the intake manifold....


Daniel, no harm no foul... I'm so envious of your set-up - it sounds great! It is especially impressive that you got 750 RWHP with a "larger than usual" pulley. I'm looking forward to seeing more data come from the guys at Muscle Motors. I love the pioneers!

(Oh, and I wasn't up so early... I'm working from Charlotte for a couple of days. Back tomorrow!)
 
Generic tune vs. custom tune (not one shop vs. another)

To say that you should go to Muscle Motors because they have a dyno defies logic.
...
You have no idea who you are dealing with.

If anybody disagrees with me, please let me know.

I disagree as I know who I'm dealing with. In fact, I know John quite well and know his ability as I've seen him run 200+ MPH, sat in his Cougar, seen him fabricate custom aluminum pieces for me on the sport, raced Go Karts with him and his crew, had lunch with him, etc. etc. Everybody at Accufab is very nice to me and my car. However, my million dollar question for the group is whether a generic tune is good enough for our cars and if so, whether anyone had their tune screwed up after a reflash.

I really should re-phrase the title of my posting to refer the tune as a generic tune, not Accufab tune.
 
However, my million dollar question for the group is whether a generic tune is good enough for our cars and if so, whether anyone had their tune screwed up after a reflash.

Bruce, my answer is that a competent source like Kenne Bell, Accufab, Ida, Muscle Motors, etc COULD (if they so desired) provide a generic tune for a STOCK car. This tune could provide performance benefits, change idling characteristics, fan speed turn-on points, etc. and could be applicable to just about anyone with a STOCK GT. They could do this and have good, consistent results and happy users.

HOWEVER, all bets are off when you start talkiing about individually modified cars.... then I think one size does not fit all. I believe your car has the Kenne Bell pulley/snout upgrade, Accufab throttle body, stiffener, and exhaust. This configuration would need to be individually tuned on your car by one of the competent sources above. (Let's assume it was.)

The tuner has the right to keep the parameters of that tune and if I call up one day and I have the exact same mods as you, the tuner could sell me the tune by installing into my SCT programmer and having me install it in my car. Odds are that the tune would work fine - but there is more risk that add'l tweaking may be necessary. Also, if there were differences such as I was running more or less boost than you (different pulley), then the changes would not work.... and my car should be tuned individually.

As you might imagine, these tuners build up quite a library of tunes that they can use as starting points. So, if I brought my car to John and I had everything the same as you but more boost, it would make sense that he download the tune he did for you and then start from there to tweak my car. I'm sure he would keep a copy of my tune and maybe this would be the starting point for someone else...

Regarding a re-flash.... this is a pretty generic term. The "tunes" downloaded into the ECU are in non-volatile memory and won't normally be effected by battery disconnects, etc. Another meaning of re-flash is that perhaps you take out your SCT programmer and attempt to re-install a tune previously developed for your car. A couple of things could go wrong. First, the SCT programmer will hold three unique tunes. The user could inadvertently download the wrong program. The second risk is that the tune on your programmer may not be reflective of the tune in your car.... due to an oversight by the original tuner.

In your case, I don't think the original tune was ever quite right and there were a couple of driveability problems. ANY competent tuner can correct the tune. I can't conceive of any advantage that the "the original tuner" has over any other tuner.... As I mentioned in my first post, there may be an economic advantage to go back to John as MAYBE he wouldn't charge you for the re-tune. Another tuner may charge you.... but there is no disadvantage or impairment that the new shop would have because you car was tuned somewhere else first. Most likely the new shop is going to start with their closest library match to your config and tune from there anyway.

FWIW, I purchased the SCT tuning software from SCT and now have the programming capability - but only for my own car by legal agreement. I have used/programmed engine management software before but the granularity of control provided by the SCT is simply amazing. This is a huge advantage to owning a GT over a car like the Gallardo or similar. (The GT has no peers!)
 
Bruce, my answer is that a competent source like Kenne Bell, Accufab, Ida, Muscle Motors, etc COULD (if they so desired) provide a generic tune for a STOCK car. This tune could provide performance benefits, change idling characteristics, fan speed turn-on points, etc. and could be applicable to just about anyone with a STOCK GT. They could do this and have good, consistent results and happy users.

HOWEVER, all bets are off when you start talkiing about individually modified cars.... then I think one size does not fit all. I believe your car has the Kenne Bell pulley/snout upgrade, Accufab throttle body, stiffener, and exhaust. This configuration would need to be individually tuned on your car by one of the competent sources above. (Let's assume it was.)

The tuner has the right to keep the parameters of that tune and if I call up one day and I have the exact same mods as you, the tuner could sell me the tune by installing into my SCT programmer and having me install it in my car. Odds are that the tune would work fine - but there is more risk that add'l tweaking may be necessary. Also, if there were differences such as I was running more or less boost than you (different pulley), then the changes would not work.... and my car should be tuned individually.

As you might imagine, these tuners build up quite a library of tunes that they can use as starting points. So, if I brought my car to John and I had everything the same as you but more boost, it would make sense that he download the tune he did for you and then start from there to tweak my car. I'm sure he would keep a copy of my tune and maybe this would be the starting point for someone else...

Regarding a re-flash.... this is a pretty generic term. The "tunes" downloaded into the ECU are in non-volatile memory and won't normally be effected by battery disconnects, etc. Another meaning of re-flash is that perhaps you take out your SCT programmer and attempt to re-install a tune previously developed for your car. A couple of things could go wrong. First, the SCT programmer will hold three unique tunes. The user could inadvertently download the wrong program. The second risk is that the tune on your programmer may not be reflective of the tune in your car.... due to an oversight by the original tuner.

In your case, I don't think the original tune was ever quite right and there were a couple of driveability problems. ANY competent tuner can correct the tune. I can't conceive of any advantage that the "the original tuner" has over any other tuner.... As I mentioned in my first post, there may be an economic advantage to go back to John as MAYBE he wouldn't charge you for the re-tune. Another tuner may charge you.... but there is no disadvantage or impairment that the new shop would have because you car was tuned somewhere else first. Most likely the new shop is going to start with their closest library match to your config and tune from there anyway.

FWIW, I purchased the SCT tuning software from SCT and now have the programming capability - but only for my own car by legal agreement. I have used/programmed engine management software before but the granularity of control provided by the SCT is simply amazing. This is a huge advantage to owning a GT over a car like the Gallardo or similar. (The GT has no peers!)

Finally someone said it factually accurate. Much clearer and better than I did. Thank You. That sums it up completely. Excellent post.