How F'd is VW?
- Thread starter djs
- Start date
Gentlemen,
First, I'm glad I'm not a VW dealer right now. The hardest thing for me to understand is how anybody involved in this decision thought it could remain undiscovered and not result in catastrophe? A couple cars can easily slip through but not half as million. Good grief.
Chip
First, I'm glad I'm not a VW dealer right now. The hardest thing for me to understand is how anybody involved in this decision thought it could remain undiscovered and not result in catastrophe? A couple cars can easily slip through but not half as million. Good grief.
Chip
Brombear
GT Owner
I might understand why they screwed up initially, but why they didn't resolve the problem in 2014 when asked by the EPA was just like praying for disaster to happen. Offering a fix with a recall would have been cheap ...
We're up to 11,000,000 worldwide and now there taking a look at the 3.0 diesel from their Audi and Porshe brands. This has a long way to go until it's over. The crazy thing is how they kept fighting to get CARB and the EPA to give them a pass. They begged for the 2016's to be excluded.
Blue Moose
GT
Wow, and all the recalls!
Imagine the long lines at dealership service departments full of customers that can't wait to have their car fixed for poor performance and worse mileage.
Imagine the long lines at dealership service departments full of customers that can't wait to have their car fixed for poor performance and worse mileage.
Cobrar
GT Owner
EPA needs to tread carefully. It also grants exemptions to certain manufacturers, typically low volume, boutique OE''s.
Someone might view that behavior as a double standard.
Empty Pockets
ex-GT Owner
Cobrar
GT Owner
Just a perspective on the news, there are compliant OE's as well. Think about this: Given the variation in OE/Supplier manufacturing orocesses and tolerances, and all of the downstream possible combinations of customer useage, geography, fuel qualities -- how much "fun" do you think it can it be to certify a vehicle with a single calibration/tune that will meet stringent EPA regs and still provide an acceptable driving experience? Oh, did I mention - while meeting fuel economy standards? I suppose that if you throw a few thousand dollars extra into each car for emission controls you can probably get it done.
The issue confronting the EPA and VW, is whether it was an intentional strategy to defeat or circumvent the intent of the regs. And unfortunately, that seems to be the case at VW.
Biginch Blake
GT Owner
I they knowingly set up for the false readings there should be no end to the steps they have to take to correct them. They should have to buy back every car/suv they sold and replace with a compliant unit. The cost to retrofit would be very high and time consuming. Her is another side to the EPA story, Last year I was on a Caterpillar advisory board and after our meeting we took a tour of the bulldozer plant. As we were walking through you could see all of the emissions equipment on the engine exhaust systems "Except" the ones painted tan. I had to ask and low and behold they were engines for the D-7 bulldozers our government had ordered. They told them it was not needed on their units and saved the $20,000 plus per unit. What a bunch of Bull! Nothing like a government that has a different set of standards for the people the govern than they do for themselves. "Do as I say not as I Do". As Forest Gump would say, "And that's all I have to say about that".
Cobrar
GT Owner
Exactly - an example of a double standard.
You need to be careful when you're up there preaching on the platform.
You need to be careful when you're up there preaching on the platform.
fjpikul
GT Owner
Xcentric
GT Owner
I hope the V6 TDIs are clean. BMWs and MBs as well.
Selective catalytic reduction seems straightforward on paper. Urea + NOx > catalyst = nitrogen + water vapor.
The question is how efficient the reaction is. Hate to see diesels killed just as they are gaining acceptance.
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
Selective catalytic reduction seems straightforward on paper. Urea + NOx > catalyst = nitrogen + water vapor.
The question is how efficient the reaction is. Hate to see diesels killed just as they are gaining acceptance.
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
Part of the reason US manufacturers avoid diesels like the plague. Producing a product in compliance with US regs that has a desirable driving experience is a major pain in the ass. It's just really stunning that the corporate culture at VW allowed this to happen while publicly putting such strategic importance on clean diesels.
VW group will be dealing with the repercussions of this for years to come.
Cobraguy
GT Owner
Blake....on an unrelated note.....back in the day we purchased a few D8-Ns straight out of the Desert Storm Rehab efforts. They showed up on site in the Canadian Rockies (still had the desert oil encrusted sand packed in tight around the final drives) belching black smoke like something out of the 60's. Turns out there were sold sans warranty (which I understand is typical in these wartime cases) with the fuel pumps jacked right up.....these units would literally push our normal units backwards.
I had heard that the entire years production of Cat D8s was dedicated to the war effort so I suspect a lot of these units are still belching away to this day...,,
Brombear
GT Owner
Question regarding US emission standards
today I red an article claiming that the very strict diesel emission standard had been set at a time when no US manufacturer had a diesel engine available, so it looked more like a protection for the own industry (not finger pointing, things like this happen in europe as well).
Here my question, what kind of fuel are the trucks in the US using ? Also diesel or regular fuel ? What kind of emission standards exist for trucks ? In Europe this is a minefield of lobbying, also because it will affect prices for everyday goods and nobody wants to be responsible for that. I always wonder when I am behind a truck when they are WOT I barely see something
today I red an article claiming that the very strict diesel emission standard had been set at a time when no US manufacturer had a diesel engine available, so it looked more like a protection for the own industry (not finger pointing, things like this happen in europe as well).
Here my question, what kind of fuel are the trucks in the US using ? Also diesel or regular fuel ? What kind of emission standards exist for trucks ? In Europe this is a minefield of lobbying, also because it will affect prices for everyday goods and nobody wants to be responsible for that. I always wonder when I am behind a truck when they are WOT I barely see something
Cobrar
GT Owner
today I red an article claiming that the very strict diesel emission standard had been set at a time when no US manufacturer had a diesel engine available, so it looked more like a protection for the own industry (not finger pointing, things like this happen in europe as well).
Here my question, what kind of fuel are the trucks in the US using ? Also diesel or regular fuel ? What kind of emission standards exist for trucks ? In Europe this is a minefield of lobbying, also because it will affect prices for everyday goods and nobody wants to be responsible for that. I always wonder when I am behind a truck when they are WOT I barely see something
Here is a fuel summary: http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/fuels/dieselfuels/index.htm
Here too in the US, regs are a direct byproduct of lobbyist influence. That said, I'll go on record saying that the US auto industry has the weakest of any lobby in DC. Pales by comparison in size and effectiveness to that of oil, pharma, banking, agriculture, tech etc. If anyone needed to see a working example of that, just look back a few years and see how many 'friends' the auto industry had when the finance world imploded.
PL510*Jeff
Well-known member
Cobrar - the US auto industry lobby spent billions fighting the system at the regulatory level rather than the congressional level. That is until the early 70's, when they capitulated on fighting the proposed "very costly" regulations (mostly emmisions) and put their efforts into developing the technology to comply and passed those costs onto the price of their vehicles. And, with a big tip of the hat to C.A.R.B, we had 49 state cars and trucks. And the rest is history.
