Horsepower versus torque


AZGT

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Dec 20, 2005
1,354
Scottsdale, AZ.
I know that this has be discussed some before, but I was thinking of a way for my simple brain to actually understand.

At the Texas mile, let's say a stock GT, 550 horse and 500 feet pound of torque, can run 170mph. What would make the car go 180 - more horsepower or more torque?

Is more horsepower "smooth" accelation to 180 (I am thinking like a "F" car) and more torque "brutal" - like the throw you back in the seat stuff?

An anology one racer told be was that horsepower is how fast you get to the wall, torque is how far you go thru the wall.

Help me understand once and for all please.
 

Indy GT

Yea, I got one...too
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Jan 14, 2006
2,526
Greenwood, IN
510*Jeff, before I take up too much bandwidth, you want to give it a shot???
 

Empty Pockets

ex-GT Owner
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Oct 18, 2006
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Actually, you need both!

Pbly the simplest way to put it is: Torque gets mass moving. H.P. keeps it moving.

Mebbe this will help:


By Karl Brauer, Editor in Chief, Edmunds.com

While horsepower is often considered when shopping for a vehicle, what about that "other" engine rating: torque?

Specifically, what are the differences between horsepower and torque? If you flip through the pages of any automotive publication, you'll notice that these two measurements are commonly listed under vehicle specifications. And while the average car enthusiast knows that both horsepower and torque play a role in performance, most of them don't understand exactly how or why.

Let's begin by explaining the technical difference between the two. Horsepower is defined as the amount of energy required to lift 550 pounds, one foot, in one second. From this definition you can see that the components of horsepower are force, distance and time. Distance and time are self-explanatory but force, specifically a twisting force, is what torque is all about.

Remember that the initial energy that moves a car forward starts in the combustion chamber in the form of an explosion. This explosion forces a piston (or group of pistons) down in a straight line, which pushes on a connecting rod and turns the engine's crankshaft. It's this turning crankshaft where the twisting force of torque initiates. From there the force is carried through a flywheel, transmission, driveshaft, axle(s) and wheel(s) before moving the car.

The measurement of torque is stated as pound-feet and represents how much twisting force is at work. If you can imagine a plumber's pipe wrench attached to a rusty drainpipe, torque is the force required to twist that pipe. If the wrench is two feet long, and the plumber pushes with 50 pounds of pressure, he is applying 100 pound-feet of torque (50 pounds x 2 feet) to turn the pipe (depending on the level of rust, this may or may not be enough torque). As you may have noticed, this measurement of torque does not include time. One-hundred pound-feet of torque is always 100 pound-feet torque, whether it is applied for five seconds or five years. So, if you want a quick answer to the difference between horsepower and torque, just keep in mind that horsepower involves the amount of work done in a given time, while torque is simply a measurement of force and is thus a component of horsepower.

To see how torque and horsepower interact, imagine your favorite SUV (everyone has one of those, right?) at the base of a steep hill. The engine is idling and the gear lever is in the "Four-Low" position. As the driver begins to press on the throttle, the engine's rpm increases, force is transmitted from the crankshaft to each wheel, and the SUV begins to climb upward. The twisting force going to each wheel as the vehicle moves up the hill is torque. Let's say the engine is at 3,000 rpm, the gear ratio is 3, and the vehicle is creating 300 pound-feet of torque. Using the following formula, we can calculate horsepower:

Take the torque of 300 multiplied by a shaftspeed of 1000 (3000 rpm divided by a gear ratio of 3) for a total of 300,000. Divide 300,000 by 5,252 and you get 57.1 horsepower that the SUV is making as it begins to ascend the hill. It is interesting to note that, since 5,252 is used to calculate horsepower by way of torque and shaftspeed, it is also the number in the rpm range at which torque and horsepower are always equal. If you were to view the horsepower and torque curves of various engines, you would notice that they always cross at 5,252 rpm.

So now we have a technical understanding of how torque interacts with horsepower, but let's move beyond that to some real-world examples. For instance, we all know that a car moves from a dead stop in 1st or low gear, yet as the car's speed increases, the gears must be moved up through 2nd, 3rd and 4th to maintain acceleration. This is because at low speeds the transmission's gears work to transmit maximum torque from the engine to the wheels. You want this because it takes more force, or torque, to move a vehicle that is at rest than it does to move a vehicle in motion (Newton's 1st Law). At the same time, once a vehicle is underway, you want less torque and more horsepower to maintain a high speed. This is because horsepower is a measurement of work done and includes a time element (such as wheel revolutions per minute necessary to maintain 75 mph).

Since entire books have been written on the concepts of horsepower and torque, it's not realistic to try and cover them fully in a single column.

Finally, let me leave you with my favorite phrase about the relationship between horsepower and torque: Horsepower is what you read about, torque is what you feel.
 

RALPHIE

GT Owner
Mar 1, 2007
7,278
Torque(lbf x ft) = Power(HP) x rpm / 5252​

At the same rpm, an increase in torque corresponds to a proportionate increase in horsepower, and vice-versa.

http://www.vettenet.org/torquehp.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque

Similarly, for a given constant horsepower output, the torque will increase proportionately with the engine revolutions.
 
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Mullet

FORD GT OWNER
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Oct 21, 2008
2,468
Houston Texas
510*Jeff, before I take up too much bandwidth, you want to give it a shot???

:lol
 

soroush

Ford Gt Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Aug 8, 2007
5,256
thats an easy one, torque is what all the twin turbo guys want, and horsepower is what all the whipple guys want.:biggrin
 

DoctorV8

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Feb 28, 2006
1,173
Houston
I know that this has be discussed some before, but I was thinking of a way for my simple brain to actually understand.

At the Texas mile, let's say a stock GT, 550 horse and 500 feet pound of torque, can run 170mph. What would make the car go 180 - more horsepower or more torque?

Is more horsepower "smooth" accelation to 180 (I am thinking like a "F" car) and more torque "brutal" - like the throw you back in the seat stuff?

An anology one racer told be was that horsepower is how fast you get to the wall, torque is how far you go thru the wall.

Help me understand once and for all please.

To make it simple, HP=Torque (in ft lbs) X RPM/5252.


The smooth/brutal analogy depends more on the cars driveline (auto vs manual vs F1 paddle shifters) and the SHAPE of the torque curve. Cars with peak torque at high RPM will by definition make more HP, and peak torque at low rpm with make less.

The wall analogy is just wrong. Torque is a rotational force. HP is the RATE at which torque is produced.

This is why both a Ferrari and an 18 wheeler might make 400 peak hp. The Ferrari makes it at 7000 rpm, while peak torque is, say 275 ft lbs at 5000 rpm. The 18 wheeler might make 1,000 ft lbs at 1500 rpm.
 
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Neilda

GT Owner
Oct 19, 2005
3,559
London, UK
Torque is the 'grunt'. :biggrin

You could think of it thus; HP is your power for moving the car, the more HP the faster you accelerate. Torque is what sort of load you could pull - more torque, more load (like towing a caravan).

A fine Arab stallion would have lots of HP for winning races, a huge shire horse would be better for pulling a heavy cart (torque). Put HP and torque together and the torque is the stuff that shifts the mass of your car in the linear way we all like.

Obviously you're not going to pull a caravan in a sports car, but it illuminates the topic perhaps?
 

BlackICE

GT Owner
Nov 2, 2005
1,416
SF Bay Area in California
HP vs. Torque doesn't make any sense. Your are trying to compare two different units of measurement that are related to one another, but different.

It makes as much sense as comparing Pam Anderson's chest to Angelina Jolie's rear.
 
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Neilda

GT Owner
Oct 19, 2005
3,559
London, UK
It makes as much sense as comparing Pam Anderson's chest to Angelina Jolie's rear.

Yeah, you say that. But put them together.....

:wink
 

Triheart7

GT Owner
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Apr 3, 2007
2,576
Northern California
Yeah, you say that. But put them together.....

:wink

Now I get it!!!
 

PL510*Jeff

Well-known member
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Nov 3, 2005
4,881
Renton, Washington
510*Jeff, before I take up too much bandwidth, you want to give it a shot???

Indy thanks for letting me go to the front of the line.

Larry what you initially feel driving away from a stop is torque. i.e. what is called the bottom end.

Once the vehicle is moving, horsepower takes over and pushes the vehicle along. i.e. the top end.

If you take a look at one of the dyno graphs, you graphically see the point where the tq. number is exceeded by the h.p. number.

and I'll let Indy take over from there........
 

TEXAS GT

2006 Twin Turbo
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Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Indy thanks for letting me go to the front of the line.

Larry what you initially feel driving away from a stop is torque. i.e. what is called the bottom end.

Once the vehicle is moving, horsepower takes over and pushes the vehicle along. i.e. the top end.

If you take a look at one of the dyno graphs, you graphically see the point where the tq. number is exceeded by the h.p. number.

and I'll let Indy take over from there........


So to answer his original question, it sounds like he needs more horsepower to achieve 180 mph?
 

Indy GT

Yea, I got one...too
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Jan 14, 2006
2,526
Greenwood, IN
Good job Jeff!
I will rest on your words. You experienced track racer you....

I think the topic has been adequately covered and I like the Pamila Anderson, Angelina Jolie analogy.

Very Nice!
 

dbackg

dbackg
Mark II Lifetime
Jan 28, 2009
691
Tempe, AZ
HP vs. Torque doesn't make any sense. Your are trying to compare two different units of measurement that are related to one another, but different.

It makes as much sense as comparing Pam Anderson's chest to Angelina Jolie's rear.

Now I understand.

So, if you were ever with a woman of that talent ... your evening would probably end really FAST.

:banana

I agree. HP vs Torque. Pam & Angelina.

different but both together = way too much fun!

Now, has anybody ever dated twins?

ok. ok .... way off topic ... sort of. :biggrin
 

Neilda

GT Owner
Oct 19, 2005
3,559
London, UK
Now, has anybody ever dated twins?

ok. ok .... way off topic ... sort of. :biggrin

Human twins?

No.