Wheel creaking issue


Sinovac

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Jul 18, 2006
5,775
Largo, Florida
150 is what the service CD says it should be.
Owner’s manual too.
 

68Rcodeman

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Apr 5, 2008
782
Spring Hill, FL.
Kevin, First I've seen this and sorry to hear of your troubles. My car is one care behind yours with just over 2,000 miles with no noises. But I have CF wheels with Titanium lug nuts that I removed with 28 miles on them. I've went out and inspected them and there is no lube on the nuts or the wheel to nut contact surface. I sent you some pictures of my lug nuts and wheel contact surface.
 
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Special K

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Aug 23, 2016
1,681
Franklinton, LA
cone seat surface finish 8.6 Ra (very smooth), thread pitch .5178", thread minor .4957", major .5604", thread length 1.2259", hardness Rc 41.8
Thank you so much for this, it definitely eliminates some of the concerns I have about the internal machining of the Ti lug nut. While I have thought thread taper near the cap of the lug nut could have been causing a “pinch” on the stud, this cut away dispels that notion. Is it possible that the stud has a taper on the bottom end causing the lug nut to bind enough for a false torque reading? Perhaps Ti wouldn’t stretch enough whereas steel would? I keep going back to the contact pattern on my Ti lug nuts being lower down the cone compared to steel. Why would that be? Dissimilar metals could be an issue for the galling and noise, but wouldn't seem to explain the contact pattern placement on the cone. Again, all thoughts are welcome no matter how unlikely they may seem.

When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. -Sir Athur Conan Doyle

(I know, I know... this can be considered a fallacy, but it get’s me thinking!)
 

Special K

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Aug 23, 2016
1,681
Franklinton, LA
Kevin, First I've seen this and sorry to hear of your troubles. My car is one care behind yours with just over 2,000 miles with no noises. But I have CF wheels with Titanium lug nuts that I removed with 28 miles on them. I've went out and inspected them and there is no lube on the nuts or the wheel to nut contact surface. I sent you some pictures of my lug nuts and wheel contact surface.
Thanks, I’ll check them out!
 

Ed Sims

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Apr 7, 2006
7,762
NorCal
You never want to use lube or anti-seize on any lug nuts/studs ever. I have Ti nuts (bolts) on another car & they squeak big time when tightening.

Ed
 
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Special K

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Aug 23, 2016
1,681
Franklinton, LA
You never want to use lube or anti-seize on any lug nuts/studs ever. I have Ti nuts (bolts) on another car & they squeak big time when tightening.

Ed
I agree Ed, but us Ti owners are now being told something different.
 

PeteK

GT Owner
Apr 18, 2014
1,890
Kalama, Free part of WA State
I have used antisieze on my steel lug nuts and bolts for decades with no loosening. Whereas, I've damn sure had a few problems getting them off if I didn't. I also use it on the aluminum Porsche lug nuts. Yes, I know, using a lubricant increases the strain put on the lug nuts/bolts/studs, but I haven't found it necessary to reduce the torque spec. The place where they get stuck is not the threads, but the cone interface to the wheel. Maybe I'll have less trouble with corrosion sticking now that I live in the PNW instead of N.Va.

Note: I have no experience with Ti lug nuts, so don't extrapolate from this to those. But given the problems you guys are having with them, I'm pretty sure I won't be buying Ti lug nuts to replace steel ones anytime soon.
 
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fjpikul

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Jan 4, 2006
11,088
Belleville, IL
Perhaps Derry could display his nuts here? For comparison......
 

STORMCAT

GT
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
May 25, 2006
7,515
Ft. Lauderdale
Kevin, sorry to hear about your long-drawn-out sad sequence of events. For the record the original titanium lug nuts that came on the early cars were 2 pieces where the chronicle base would seat and not require rotation as you tighten the nut. I'm sure this design was to prevent the galling effect.

I had never seen this before and it was obviously done for a reason. They did have their inherent problems and We're switched out for a solid titanium lug nut design..

As an owner who has taken his wheels off many times I did notice a lot of binding as the base of the solid lug nuts contacted the wheel. I started using " never seez " on the conicle base. without any notification or recommendation it just seemed natural To eliminate the binding.

I didn't read everyone's post if this was brought up before .. feel free to call me if you need to discuss anything.. B
 
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fjpikul

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Jan 4, 2006
11,088
Belleville, IL
StormCat, are you going to show us your nuts with and without "never seez" at the conical base? Might be a good comparison with Derry's
 

Special K

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Aug 23, 2016
1,681
Franklinton, LA
Kevin, sorry to hear about your long-drawn-out sad sequence of events. For the record the original titanium lug nuts that came on the early cars were 2 pieces where the chronicle base would seat and not require rotation as you tighten the nut. I'm sure this design was to prevent the galling effect.

I had never seen this before and it was obviously done for a reason. They did have their inherent problems and We're switched out for a solid titanium lug nut design..

As an owner who has taken his wheels off many times I did notice a lot of binding as the base of the solid lug nuts contacted the wheel. I started using " never seez " on the conicle base. without any notification or recommendation it just seemed natural To eliminate the binding.

I didn't read everyone's post if this was brought up before .. feel free to call me if you need to discuss anything.. B
I did hear from a tech that there was an early 2-piece design that was pulled early on. No one could really recall why they were eliminated, but what you said about not rotating during torquing makes sense. It does sound like enough thought was originally given to this issue on that design for good reason. I wonder if they recreated a previously solved problem by switching back to the 1-piece design. Also, I think the problem is exacerbated on alloy wheels due to the softer metal compared to the steel inserts on the carbon wheel.
 

HighHP

GT Owner
Jun 3, 2019
365
Spokane, WA
StormCat, are you going to show us your nuts with and without "never seez" at the conical base? Might be a good comparison with Derry's

I don't have a NGT just a GT. So, I have no driving need to see StormCat or Derry's nuts on display for all to see. Although, if they do display them, I will look, just to see what they look like. BTW, my nuts work fine.
 

ENZO BTR

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Sep 11, 2005
1,034
Southern California
As a journalism major I'd like to point out this is where spelling and punctation becomes very important.

Stating: "In an effort to understand this noise issue it's become clear the problem is you're nuts." is very different than stating, "In an effort to understand this noise Issue it's become clear the problem is your nuts."
 

PeteK

GT Owner
Apr 18, 2014
1,890
Kalama, Free part of WA State
And as an engineer, I’d like to point out that the correct use of the apostrophe makes the difference between “knowing your shit,” and “knowing you’re shit.”
 

fjpikul

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Jan 4, 2006
11,088
Belleville, IL
For years I have strived to get posters here on the Form to be grammatically correct. Thank you gentlemen (and I use that term loosely with you two) for helping prove my point.
 

Special K

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Aug 23, 2016
1,681
Franklinton, LA
Here is what I have received from Concierge regarding Ti lug nut installation:798C6B54-58D4-42F7-ADD4-A994A6606371.jpeg
 

BtwoG

GT Owner
Dec 8, 2013
1,030
Atlanta, GA
With a publication date of Sept 2022 :cool::geek:
 
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extrap

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Jul 16, 2020
1,353
Gainesville FL
Here is what I have received from Concierge regarding Ti lug nut installation:
Did they do that to yours? And if so, did it stop the creaking? 🤞🤞
 

GT@50

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Dec 14, 2019
569
Issaquah
It says to apply to cone. Pic looks like threads too.
 

Nafod

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Here is what I have received from Concierge regarding Ti lug nut installation:View attachment 66913
So, after Kevin identifying a problem, losing use of his car for a long period, he gets a note from Ford as to how to service his nuts
( Sorry, Kevin, Dr Franks comments crept into my thoughs).

Maybe he's the only one with carbon wheels and Ti lug nuts. Where is the email to all NFGT owners with the same configuration.

Where is the package from Ford with detailed instructions defining the issue and providing a fix( a can of Ford approved dry lube).

They provided a fix package to the GT350 guys for an oil filter issue. Granted, that was to save engines and loss of control of the

vehicle.. But I would think a set of carbon wheels is not an inexpensive venture either. Low mileage cars will probably never see this.

Guys not going out on the track that drive with the windows up will probably not hear it. Still, its an identified failure mode, and an

inexpensive fix would be to let owners know and send a kit. Not everyone is on this great forum. Glad I subscribed to keep in the

loop. Out to buy a can of dry moly lube. OMHO. YMMV

Thanks, Kevin.
 
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