What would you do if these were YOUR kids?

[Empty Pockets]

Wow, you guys act like you've never done something stupid or irresponsible.

Yeah, I know how self righteous and/or "sanctimonious" this sounds, but I've never done anything even remotely resembling what these 'loooozers' did. 'Never vandalized diddly...'never shoplifted...'never did drugs...'never did ANYTHING I even remotely suspected would bring embarrassment to my folks. Neither did anyone I hung out with as far as I know. And maybe therein lies the root problem where these punks are concerned...'no respect/concern for anybody or anything. Not even for themselves.

As far as doing "something stupid"...oh, yeah. 'Guilty. BUT, it was always done out of ignorance (in the true sense/meaning of the word) - NOT because it was my intent from the get-go. That said, I'm not claiming to have been 'perfect' 24/7/365 either. (I'd bet the farm the majority of 'Forum members could say the same w/o lightning striking.)

So, I hafta disagree with your basic premise, sir.


Pious Pockets

 

[BlackICE]

I'm with EP. I never done anything nearly as destructive to other peoples property as the punks in the video. Just plain a lack of respect for others. A sad statement about todays youth.

 

[ChipBeck]

Wow, you guys act like you've never done something stupid or irresponsible. Not making excuses for their crap, I never went that far, but we've all been yound and dumb, and obviously these kids need to grow up, learn responsibility, etc... but lets not act like they deserve death. A little excessive, arrest them for vandalism and be done with it. Picking up shit on the highway will teach them about social responsibility.

I didn't want to believe that some people, even some very young people, are just plane evil. But in my business I see it over and over. 10 year old African American boys stealing and then staring straight into the eyes of a police officer and screaming "Fu** You!! I don't like white people!!!" Stupid and irresponsible don't quite cover it when actions are premeditated, intentionally destructive, and committed with glee. Evil exists, and its alive and well in the hearts and minds of the boys in that video.

Chip

 

[BlackICE]

10 year old African American boys stealing and then staring straight into the eyes of a police officer and screaming "Fu** You!! I don't like white people!!!"Chip

What that be a hate crime with extra penalties? If a white kid did that to a black officer would it be treated any differently?

 

[daytrayd]

Now I'm not delusional enough to think I am going to change anyones opinion on this, but I think we all need to look back in the mirror 20 to 50 years ago and look at the things we did when we were 15. I never did anything that bad, but for example I shot some birds, squirrels, lizards with a bb gun. Killed em dead! Also shot my Aunts bird feeder, my grandpas tractor window when I was like 10. I also shot out an abandoned house window. When I was sixteen, I started streetracing. Crashed and burned, it was dumb and dangerous to other people.

Now what was the point of that? I was like a puppy teething. It wasnt about disrespecting other peoples property, or endangering other people. Its about finding our boundaries and pushing them. Its a rush. If I crossed a boundary, I got spanked. Or wrecked into a wall. We do things for excitement. Shooting, cars, street racing, drugs, hangliding, dancing, boating, skydiving, polo, whatever gets you off. Wasnt dancing the rebellion of the 50's and early 60's, and drugs in the late 60's to the 80's? I find the people that do the most disrespectful stuff are the kids with everything, and the kids with nothing. But we all did something "bad" growing up or you're lying to yourself. I'd bet these kids in the video are upper middle class with nothing to do. So they went vandalizing, which progresses from throwing pillow (zero damage), to knocking over cans and crushing kleenex (damage). They are bored and getting a rush, it has nothing to do with anti-corporate, which is probably their reasoning, and has nothing to do with disrespecting other peoples property. They simply want a rush, and will keep pushing it till they get a reality check. Its called growing up, and undoubtedly kids grow up slower now than 40 years ago. Shit my parents were married at 19, and my Dad drafted for Nam and stationed in Korea. Is that how it should be? I dont know, maybe things were better then, or maybe its just different now.

As to Chip's response, I'd respond racism isnt born, its bred. It sucks you have to deal with that, I think we all do. I know I did growing up as a white minority in San Antonio. Imagine being that kid though, what does he have? Nothing to lose, and everyone to blame. Its a sick situation that every politician promises to fix by more taxes or less taxes. And yes, the only way to fix all the problems with "the youth" is good parenting. How do we fix that? I dont know, but I agree if they are left without consequence things get worse.

 

[MNJason]

If a white kid did that to a black officer would it be treated any differently?

Absolutely it would.

 

[SteveA]

I understand where your coming from daytrayd but see a difference in shooting things in your back yard, going to far and breaking a pot or killing a lizard. I recall plinking in a Utah wash 40 years ago and at a whim shot at a bird that was well over 200 yards out....sadly by far the best shot I have ever made with a .22. The bird dropped out of the tree like rock and when I hiked to it, it was plan to see the bird had been a gorgeous Red Tailed Hawk. I felt like crap then and I still feel like crap today. My intention wasn't to kill anything but that bird was dead none the less. The key word here is "intention", I'll bet when you crashed and burned a car while street racing that wasn't your intention to do so. While I don't think these boys should be killed for what they did I do believe these kids will probably go on to cause more harm by the nature of their total lack of respect displayed and their intention to cause damage.
On another note, I grow very weary of how people use the word mistake in describing crimes. A boy walking into Chips' store with some friends knocking over a display while horsing around made a mistake and can somewhat rectified this by helping Chip to clean it up displaying a lack of intention to cause damage as well displaying some remorse. Entering Chips store with the sole purpose of destroying or robbing the place is a character flaw. I fear these boys in the video are prone to having character flaws not making mistakes.

 

[Luke Warmwater]

What would you do if these were YOUR kids?

Shoot myself for being such a shitty parent

 

[Empty Pockets]

Shooting, cars...hangliding, dancing, boating, skydiving, polo, whatever gets you off.

None of the above are in the same category as the stunts pulled in the vid. Neither are they illegal.

But we all did something "bad" growing up or you're lying to yourself.

There are degrees of "bad".

...has nothing to do with disrespecting other peoples property...

Oh, yes it does! If they respected other people's property they wouldn't have done what they did!

...Its called growing up...

No. I believe the courts have another name for it.


I understand the point you're making and I agree with it in principle. It's just when we get to the specifics that you and I disagree evidently! :lol :thumbsup

 

[dbk]

Wow, you guys act like you've never done something stupid or irresponsible. Not making excuses for their crap, I never went that far, but we've all been yound and dumb, and obviously these kids need to grow up, learn responsibility, etc... but lets not act like they deserve death. A little excessive, arrest them for vandalism and be done with it. Picking up shit on the highway will teach them about social responsibility.

I'm with you!

Big deal. People have been stupid for the entirety of human history. Now we just A) give them a camera to document it with and B) have more to choose from. Kids are stupid? This is not news.

I do get cracked up at "the good old days." Give me a break. When most of you guys were kids, people were still cutting off black guy's dicks for whistling at white women.

"sanctimonious"

Glad my forum vocabulary lessons have paid off! Feel free to supplement phonetically spelled gibberish with real words any time you like.

 

[Empty Pockets]

I understand where your coming from daytrayd but see a difference in shooting things in your back yard, going to far and breaking a pot or killing a lizard. I recall plinking in a Utah wash 40 years ago and at a whim shot at a bird that was well over 200 yards out....sadly by far the best shot I have ever made with a .22. The bird dropped out of the tree like rock and when I hiked to it, it was plan to see the bird had been a gorgeous Red Tailed Hawk. I felt like crap then and I still feel like crap today. My intention wasn't to kill anything but that bird was dead none the less. The key word here is "intention", I'll bet when you crashed and burned a car while street racing that wasn't your intention to do so. While I don't think these boys should be killed for what they did I do believe these kids will probably go on to cause more harm by the nature of their total lack of respect displayed and their intention to cause damage.
On another note, I grow very weary of how people use the word mistake in describing crimes. A boy walking into Chips' store with some friends knocking over a display while horsing around made a mistake and can somewhat rectified this by helping Chip to clean it up displaying a lack of intention to cause damage as well displaying some remorse. Entering Chips store with the sole purpose of destroying or robbing the place is a character flaw. I fear these boys in the video are prone to having character flaws not making mistakes.

:agree: 'Stated the case far better than I was able! :thumbsup:thumbsup

 

[Kayvan]

Vast majority of these end up dead, incarcerated or banished from society

See accident stats for mustangs, entry level cars & prison stats.

In some communities there are literally no young men b/w 18-25 present.

 

[ChipBeck]

As to Chip's response, I'd respond racism isn't born, its bred.....How do we fix that? I don't know, but I agree if they are left without consequence things get worse.

Here we are on the same page. I would have a lot more compassion if I was in another line of work and didn't have to pay $50,000+ THOUSAND DOLLARS a year to repair vandalism damage at my store. I had one tagger that was spray painting "ART" all over my store for two months and I couldn't catch the kid. I spent over 20 grand as I had to repaint almost my entire facility and redo the car wash twice. After a multi-day stakeout I finally got my hands on the 17 year old boy and I was not real nice. His father threatened to sue me and the Phoenix Police (who did nothing to help me catch that sub-human animal) interviewed me as well. The kid did some time and his dad backed off when he found out he was responsible for the damage caused by his minor child (I never got a dime however). These kids are not born this way, they are either neglected or actively encouraged to behave this way.

I am not talking about normal childhood mischief. I'm talking about hardcore criminal hate. Every kid makes mistakes, but a few have a much deeper problem. It's tragic to see a 12 year old boy that is well and truly lost for life.

I train Labrador Retrievers and if a dog is abused during the first 6 months of his life he can never be turned into a quality worker. The early imprinting stamps that dog for life. I believe it's the same with children. Working for 15 years around welfare/food stamp fatherless inner city kids is pretty revealing in a heartbreaking way. It is clearly evident with some (not all) of these kids that by age 12 they have almost no chance of ever being productive worthwhile members of society.

Organizations like Big Brothers of America exist to try and address the lack of mentors and positive role models in some of these kids lives.

Chip

 

[SteveA]

I'm with you!

Big deal. People have been stupid for the entirety of human history. Now we just A) give them a camera to document it with and B) have more to choose from. Kids are stupid? This is not news.

I do get cracked up at "the good old days." Give me a break. When most of you guys were kids, people were still cutting off black guy's dicks for whistling at white women.



Glad my forum vocabulary lessons have paid off! Feel free to supplement phonetically spelled gibberish with real words any time you like.

I grew up in the late 60's and 70's so I'm not sure this qualifies as the "good old days" and not even sure I even want to attempt to tackle the dick cutting social problems of the south in this thread. However it is very easy to see that as we become more "progressive" and "understanding" as a society we are also becoming less civilized as a people. When I graduated from high school in '76 my first job was in the service industry. My "area" was Lynwood, Watts, N. Long Beach, Paramont, Bell Gardens, Carson and I lived in Santa Ana. I worked these areas with very few problems for years, now if you inter these areas as an outsider your a dead man. I'm not just talking about black on white or white on black crime but more about the random acts of anger, lack of civility and loss of respect that has taken hold in large urban areas.

 

[daytrayd]

EP,

I dont disagree with any of your statements, but I would add sometimes growing up means getting arrested, spanked, or fired, etc. Its up to the individual to do the growing though. Thats what separates men from criminals. Haha


SteveA, as for intent. You didnt intend to kill that bird, I didnt intend to put people in harms way speeding, those kids didnt intend to harm people by making a mess. Nonetheless, all those actions did the unintended. The intent was for you to test your skills as a marksmen and do a little destruction, mine to get a rush speeding, them to get a rush doing something they're told not to do. I dont see what separates you and me from them. They didnt go into that store intending to make someones life worse, they went in there to get a rush acting stupid. No malice, just a greedy self fulfillment. I could see people arguing their intent, but we really dont know. I can only speculate as I can still remember being a kid and the stupid things I did which really had nothing to do with the action, but the feeling of a rush.

Cheers everyone, heres to growing up!

Cavan

 

[daytrayd]

Vast majority of these end up dead, incarcerated or banished from society

See accident stats for mustangs, entry level cars & prison stats.

In some communities there are literally no young men b/w 18-25 present.

My first two cars were Mustangs, I totaled the first one racing. Consider me another statistic of failure.

Come on Kayvan! We're supposed to stick together.

 

[dbk]

I grew up in the late 60's and 70's so I'm not sure this qualifies as the "good old days" and not even sure I even want to attempt to tackle the dick cutting social problems of the south in this thread. However it is very easy to see that as we become more "progressive" and "understanding" as a society we are also becoming less civilized as a people. When I graduated from high school in '76 my first job was in the service industry. My "area" was Lynwood, Watts, N. Long Beach, Paramont, Bell Gardens, Carson and I lived in Santa Ana. I worked these areas with very few problems for years, now if you inter these areas as an outsider your a dead man. I'm not just talking about black on white or white on black crime but more about the random acts of anger, lack of civility and loss of respect that has taken hold in large urban areas.

Perspective. Plenty of dumps in the world. Worst one in America, I am intimately familiar with.

That said, having lived in a Europe that is now annoyingly understanding to a fault, you tell me which is less civilized: The one today where bored youths riot like dickheads, or the one our parents got acquainted with during a war where the belligerents killed nearly 75 million people? We're not even 70 years removed from Germans stuffing Jews, the mentally retarded, gypsies, gays, etc into giant ovens and gas chambers! Yikes.

Point is, world has always been a mess. Lots of hindsight bias at play. We all get to deal with new manifestations of idiocy. But if you created a graph depicting how dangerous civilization was in general, it would look like it fell off a cliff in the last couple decades. Kids being little jerks in a grocery doesn't move the needle much on which direction the world is going.

 

[twobjshelbys]

The video is only available if you have the link so this has "gone viral". One of them is named Nick.

My daughter is a manager at a local Safeway. If she saw this happening the doors would have been locked down and the cops called.

How they ever got away with it. At the end I heard someone yell "Security" so they got caught and were close enough to the doors to escape.

The good thing is all of their faces are on video. Hopefully someone turned them in.

I'll tell you what would have happened if I had done anything like this and got caught. The follow up would have been a funeral, or I would have wished it had been.

They look to be 15 or 16, and know more than anyone. My guess is they will all be in prison before they are 18. It's like animal abuse: It doesn't stop there.

 

[jaxgt]

Flame thrower?

 

[Empty Pockets]

EP,

I dont disagree with any of your statements, but I would add sometimes growing up means getting arrested, spanked, or fired, etc. Its up to the individual to do the growing though. Thats what separates men from criminals. Haha

I would state your opening thought a wee bit differently (naturally!): "For SOME growing up means getting arrested...", and by definition "getting arrested" means something more than a harmless 'prank' had to have happened. But, like I said, I understand the point you're making and I agree with it in principle.

Lemme put it this way: All I know is when I was growing up in the Pacific Northwest 'back in the day' (fifties and sixties), we never saw teens doing this kinda stuff. Nor did we see "Columbine" or "Vir. Tech" incidents...or drivebys...or 'gangs'...or rampant drug use...or teachers being thrown out of 2nd story windows. If a kid showed up in the school parking lot with a Winchester resting on a gun rack mounted across the rear window of his pickup and the principal or V.P. saw it, he'd run over to the kid's truck and compliment him on his choice of rifle (or shotgun) and they'd compare notes on it. The worst thing a kid ever did in school was get caught chewing gum, passing notes, or (gasp!) talking in class - or smoking in the boy's room. Yeah, maybe there were TWO fist fights I personally witnessed in all those years - but, nobody ended up dead over it. Usually the parties involved ended up being friends eventually. This is NOT an accounting of those days viewed thru rose colored glasses. That's the way it actually was.

So regarding your question as to whether things were better back then or just different today, I'd have to say "both". And that which is "different" today isn't "better"!

Anyway, enough of this! I enjoyed the back 'n' forth, Cavan!

Merry Christmas (or Happy Holidays, whichever applies) to you and yours, sir! :thumbsup :cheers