What can a Ford Dealer do?

[Heffner Performance]

I don't see cause for concern with any of the above graphs. Theoretically your boost curve should be smooth but theory and reality are often somewhat different.

 

[AZGT]

First off with the car TOTALLY stock and with 50 miles on it, we did a few pulls.

I am sure you guys will correct me if I am wrong :biggrin

It has been mentioned (I don't know if this is fact) that the car from he factory does not hit full performance until after 100 miles or so many starts or something like that.

At 50 miles, I think that if the above is true, the computer is not going to allow full performance.

OK, waiting for my correction (may I have another SIR)

 

[nota4re]

Ok... great so basically the ONLY thing you have to say is that the shop where the car was tested is the problem? BAD DATA..... Bad dyno, bad equipment, bad tuner.... ok... I gotchya. So let me ask you this sir; if this shop that did this testing was say at a shop YOU knew was reputable and the tuner there had a POPULAR name like say John Hennessey, would you STILL insist that until I take the car to another shop, the WHOLE problem could be with the dyno and getting bad data?

Glenn,

Just to be clear, I'm not saying the shop or the equipment is bad and these guys are a bunch of goons. I AM saying that there could very well be some anomolies between the GT and other cars that they test. In answer to your question if I took my car to a shop I KNEW was a good shop.... I would abosolutely question the probability that the data and NOT the car was bad. Again, chit happens. (With the benefit of hindsight - I do think the shop you're taking it to is amiss for letting you chase a perceived problem without at least exploring other explanations.... especially when you have NO symptoms.)

Jason Heffner is a far, far, better judge than me - and he has chimed in to say he doesn't see anything necessarily wrong with your charts..... and I would infer that there's certainly nothing there that would cause him to start tearing into your car or swapping superchargers.

And just to point out one more piece of "evidence" that your car is absolutely normal. The dyno shows about 500HP of peak HP. I say that this number is VERY good. Ford rates the engine at 550 HP at the crank and if you're seeing 500HP at the wheels - this is very good and VERY normal. The dyno that I use for my car has tested probably at least a dozen GT's. In stock form, NONE of them was over 500HP. They all were within the range of 470-490 at the wheels.

So, my friend, button that gal up and be happy with your purchase and go enjoy the heck out of her.

 

[dbk]

Agreed. I think 500rwhp is maybe a little on the low side, but not abnormally. As they say, different dynos different days.

This is in no way a judgment of the shop, but the only way to compare would be to throw another stock GT on the same dyno and see what comes up. Or take your car to another dyno. This would be the proper course of action no matter who you took the car to. It would immediately identify whether or not you have a problem and eliminate all the conjecture.

Again, I'm not saying you don't have a problem, but with the given information, there just isn't enough evidence to make any kind of informed judgment.

I just think the classification of a 500rwhp reading from an advertised 550hp car as a nightmare is definitely overboard, especially given that you've now modded the car.

 

[Heffner Performance]

On another note if you decide that you want to unload your lemon for a relatively low dollar figure given it's problem please let me know.:biggrin

 

[gbvetracer]

Power...

Guys... As I said to the Ford rep today.... please TRY and STOP confusing issues here... lets NOT talk about power for a minute. I have spoke to at least 6 FGT owners who DID dyno and measure boost... they ALL saw 12 lbs of boost or 11.9's. NOW... if we just FORGET about my cars wavy boost line.....then im sorry but im NOT accepting the FACT that my boost is 2 pounds LOWER then all the other FGT's.... ITS NOT THIS COMPLICATED,IS IT? Granted, we all know that more boost equals more power...so everyone wants to talk about power... but I see this as apples and oranges. IM not making the boost all the other cars are, its that simple. If a mechanic at a ford dealer can monitor boost with a scan tool while we drive it, maybe HE can see a problem and help here. Im putting it back together and gunna take everyones advice. BUT, Im going to get a leak down test done and a compression test done just for grins... THANKS for all your help ... glenn

 

[nota4re]

then im sorry but im NOT accepting the FACT that my boost is 2 pounds LOWER then all the other FGT's.... ITS NOT THIS COMPLICATED,IS IT?

No, it's not. I don't think that your boost is lower than everyone elses. To be clear, on the GT it's not like the good 'ol days where you find a vacuum line to "T" into and you measure boost. In fact, Kenne Bell makes a kit for the GT which sandwiches a plate in place so you CAN get a "normal" boost through a genuine port. I'm pretty sure you don't have this KB accessory on your car.

Soooo, the boost measurement is coming from some different way. Maybe your shop is T-ing into a line that they shouldn't be (or that produces wiggly results). More likely, the shop is tapping electronically into a sensor or is trapping the boost signal to the ECU. Either way, there is some software and interpretation happening to convert a voltage signal into a boost pressure. As I have said since the beginning of your saga, I think this is an area that is more likely "suspect" rather than the car itself. We're talking about power - because your power looks like a normal GT. If, in fact, you were 2lbs down on boost pressure, I wouldn't think you could see 500 RWHP. This is the point.

Before you go any further, why don't you order up the KB sandwich plate and measure boost with a good mechanical boost gauge. You don't even have to take it to the dyno. Just tape the gauge to the back window and have a passenger read off the values. I bet you'll see "normal" GT boost levels.

 

[dbk]

I have spoke to at least 6 FGT owners who DID dyno and measure boost... they ALL saw 12 lbs of boost or 11.9's.

None of them were measured at the same shop correct? You see my point?

 

[AMB]

Boost Gage

You dodn't need the KB boost gage kit to read the boost. You can just tap into the FRPS Boost/Vaccum line to get the CORRECT boost/vaccum !!!

AMB

 

[Bill Oxley]

I keep asking myself why I am so intrigued by this thread. The original "thread starter" apparantly doesn't like his GT all that well.

Most everyone else posting on this thread is defending the GT, as would I.

I couldn't be happier with my GT. Great car!

Maybe he should take it to a NHRA track, and have someone qualified to drive it, run the 1/4. That would probrobaly tell all.

If I'm remembering correctly, anywhere between 11.5 to 12.25 would point to an "ok" stock GT.

Oh, I forgot, this one been modified. Maybe he expects much more of the car than that, but a high eleven street car in todays world is awesome, especially considering a 1/4 mile run is certainly not this cars strong suit in the first place!

 

[nota4re]

You dodn't need the KB boost gage kit to read the boost. You can just tap into the FRPS Boost/Vaccum line to get the CORRECT boost/vaccum !!!

Good point. But why would KB go through all of the trouble to make a special adapter?? I frankly don't think he sells that many but it IS part of his GT S/C upgrade kit..... Strange.

 

[dbk]

I keep asking myself why I am so intrigued by this thread. The original "thread starter" apparantly doesn't like his GT all that well.

Most everyone else posting on this thread is defending the GT, as would I.

I wouldn't say GB doesn't like his GT, I think he's just frustrated! We're all just looking for the best way to find out how to resolve it and figure out the depth of the problem, and if it lies with the car or elsewhere.

 

[ROCMAN]

The only thing about the boost on my old GT that I hated was the fact that it left with the GT and didn't stick around after the sale.:lol

 

[Gimbal]

Not sure, but how does Pressure, Temperature and Humidity change Boost/HP readings? I would think in order to do a correct comparison these values need to be adjusted. I have no experience in this area, just a thought. I would also think that each GT will have at least a 5% difference in top HP readings even when trying to make all variables as close as possible. When trying to measure high HP I'm sure very small and subtle changes can make a big difference.

 

[AMB]

nota4re

KB did the same thing with the 03/04 Mustang Cobra Kits too !!! It wasn't needed either !!!

AMB

 

[AZGT]

I am sure you guys will correct me if I am wrong :biggrin

It has been mentioned (I don't know if this is fact) that the car from he factory does not hit full performance until after 100 miles or so many starts or something like that.

At 50 miles, I think that if the above is true, the computer is not going to allow full performance.

OK, waiting for my correction (may I have another SIR)

Well, I am going to quote myself.

The discussion (sorry, I have not read it THAT close) seems to be about under performance.

Again, I have heard that the car WILL NOT OPERATE at full performance until after a set time - I think 100 miles was it. So, 50 miles will NOT ALLOW the peak performance.

If this is wrong, let me know. If not, I would imagine that is the issue (which is not really an issue).

 

[Fubar]

I am no techy, so this may be out of left field... but if your boost line is wavy, wouldn't that be consistent with the intake tunnel collapsing? I read your list of mod (and maybe you forgot to mention one of the many aftermarket fixes for this) but I didn't see anything about the accufab clean air tube or other related mod.

That's my 2 cents.

 

[gbvetracer]

great comments...

First off, my cars boost hasnt changed before OR after the mods. (except when testing different pulleys) We DID install the accufab inlet pipe to insure it couldnt collapse. NOW, about whats interesting here, bottom line sounds like we NEED to know EXACTLY where we're tapping in to measure the boost on the dyno. Honestly, im not sure. BUT, as I have said before, our tuner has used this EXACT same equipment on hundreds of other supercharged cars to do the exact same thing. HIS equipment has NEVER been a suspect in all the other cars. The boost they indicate is right in line with other shops, magazines and known industry standards. SO, again, the KEY to this WHOLE discussion is to find out IF where hes tapping in to pull the boost is a potential issue. Obviously, if we get another FGT there to test, that would be the end-all to the debate. BUT, until then... I will focus on where were pulling boost and COULD this be a problem. IF he is mistaken or pulling boost from a bad spot, and getting bad data.... after all these months... im gunna strangle him! He has talked with everyone from SCT, Dynojet, MMP, Accufab, and several others to confirm that EVERYTHING he has been doing is CORRECT and the SAME WAY THEY DO IT. Im still waiting to hear from Ford if a basic hand scanner can monitor boost... We should be able to take a drive with the scan tool and see the boost... if its low or wavy.. they should be able to see this... right? Then this will be the dealers problem to fix... I WILL let you know what I find asap... thanks guys! .... oh, and to the guy that says I dont like my car... thats so retarded im not even going to respond. I've been racing cars for 20 years and I also dont agree with the quarter mile comments... I have several "basic" cars that run high 11's... thats nothing that fantastic... The FGT is NOT your typical mustang, cobra or corvette... We all know a FGT with minor mods, will run in the 10's! If he thinks putting a pulley and a tune on a car is a big mod... then what does he think of all the cars running around with whipples? What are they nuts? : ) These cars are THE most awesome cars ever! To NOT race one or ever drive it as its been designed, I feel is a crime. Like Shadowman, and several others, I simply want my gal to drive as good as she looks.... and she looks INCREDIBLE! Cobras, Saleens, Vettes,Vipers, etc... their a dime a dozen... as IS there 11 n 12 second quarter mile times.. Ive owned them all in the past.... These GT's are in another league in many ways.... Drive safe and F A S T, later...

 

[everetto]

,,,bottom line sounds like we NEED to know EXACTLY where we're tapping in to measure the boost on the dyno.

This is the specific thing we must know. You can't simply ask him? My car has been on the dyno 4 times and we have not measured boost, so I would like to know where and how your guy is hooking up, with these specifics;

1) is he measuring an electrical signal (and thus converting it to extrapolate boost)?
2) Or, is he using a vacuum/boost rubber or plastic line?
3) if using a rubber or plastic line where exactly is he tying it in?

Please get these 3 specific answers.

 

[gbvetracer]

everetto... thanks..

okiedokie... I will ask those exact questions... I want to know bad now... also wanna know if a ford scan tool can see the boost while driving the car with it plugged in.... boost shouldnt be this hard to measure..... thank you.