Shelby selling GT40 replicas now

[Doc]

I hear Shelby is building 200 GT500s for Hertz!

I wasn't aware of that. I was aware that Ford will build 500 Mustang GT350H's for Hertz. The ad (today) in the Wall Street Journal mentioned a July delivery.

Spec'd mine and should take delivery sometime in July

Congrats! What color did you order? Did you sell the Aston Martin?

The Superfromance cars will appear is the SAAC registry.

I assume they made a deal with the club in order to be listed in the registry?

They are better than any 1960s cobra.

Except on the auction block and in the hearts of most enthusiasts. :wink

 

[bigdan40]

Bony, very well done you saved me a lot of typing! :biggrin Atomic, I appreciate your passion for the Shelby name and rightfully so, the guy is an icon. In the same breath don't give him all the credit. His hand in taking the AC and putting in the Ford drivetrain is the stuff history is made of. That was then, this is now. It's not all about infringement or identiy theft, it's about a product that lots of people so appreciated they decided to build their own. Answer me this, why did Shelby disappear for so many years when all of these "replicas" were being built and being called Cobras? Go to www.cobracountry.com and look at every advertised car, their all labeled Cobras. No biggie in my book. When somebody asks me if my Superformance is the real deal I jokingly tell them "yes, and my unmarked security force is right behind them". We laugh and then I explain to them what a SF car is. Good job defending his name though, if I'm ever in a dispute I want you on my side!!! BD40 arty

 

[AtomicGT]

Bony

Where is the link to the Commercial? Saw your thread on the Mario Andretti event, I will try to make it. I have an original Shelby 66 G.T 350, so I am a little partial to original stuff. But also appreciate the feeling of just driving an artform that is better looking than just about any car on the block, Cobra, Mustang, GT doesn't matter. The fact is the cars are gorgeous and exhilerating to drive makes for a big fraternity.

Ciao

 

[bitzman]

Atomic GT, some facts

As far as Shelby's latest Cobras not being made in Poland, one day I happened to call up Kirkham in Utah and who answers but the mother of the Kirkham brothers who blithely told me that they and Shelby trade serial numbers on occasion--i.e.they give Shelby so many rollers and he gives them some CSX numbers for some of their cars, which automatically makes them worth more.And the Kirkhams are made in Poland.

Also Ford made the deal on the original GT with Eric Broadley (you had the wrong first name) and it wasn't for the body of the Lola GT but to use the Lola Mk. 6 as a chassis test mule while they developed the GT40.

Two misc. questions I have about the birth of the replica Cobra market are:
1.)where is Brian Angliss today--he being the former owner of AC Cars Ltd.
and developer of the Mk. IV aluminum bodied Cobra replica? Anyone have ans e-mail address for him?

2.)was the murder of Richard Pierce, Encino attorney and partner in making some fake 427 Cobras , due to his involvement in faking 427 Cobras or something non-related?

 

[AtomicGT]

That is a very attractive Mustang, should be a line-up to rent from Hertz, I suspect the cars by the time Hertz sells them will have a ton of miles on them but with the Hertz - Shelby History they should increase in value. Anyone know if this is a multi-year contract? Guess I will try to rent one of these in Sun Valley Idaho in the middle of January from the Hertz office in Hailey? Can you image what one of these would be like in hte snow?

:biggrin :biggrin :biggrin

 

[B O N Y]

Bony

Where is the link to the Commercial? Saw your thread on the Mario Andretti event, I will try to make it. I have an original Shelby 66 G.T 350, so I am a little partial to original stuff. But also appreciate the feeling of just driving an artform that is better looking than just about any car on the block, Cobra, Mustang, GT doesn't matter. The fact is the cars are gorgeous and exhilerating to drive makes for a big fraternity.

Ciao

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

understand they will not be renting cars to drivers under 80....
http://www.norcal-saac.org/images/ShelbyGT-H.wmv

 

[Bart Carter]

Congrats! What color did you order? Did you sell the Aston Martin?

Blue, no stripes, no Mac, red calipers, alloy wheels. :biggrin

Vanquish is for sale, although I haven't advertised yet.

 

[B O N Y]

As far as Shelby's latest Cobras not being made in Poland, one day I happened to call up Kirkham in Utah and who answers but the mother of the Kirkham brothers who blithely told me that they and Shelby trade serial numbers on occasion--i.e.they give Shelby so many rollers and he gives them some CSX numbers for some of their cars, which automatically makes them worth more.And the Kirkhams are made in Poland.

Also Ford made the deal on the original GT with Eric Broadley (you had the wrong first name) and it wasn't for the body of the Lola GT but to use the Lola Mk. 6 as a chassis test mule while they developed the GT40.

Two misc. questions I have about the birth of the replica Cobra market are:
1.)where is Brian Angliss today--he being the former owner of AC Cars Ltd.
and developer of the Mk. IV aluminum bodied Cobra replica? Anyone have ans e-mail address for him?

2.)was the murder of Richard Pierce, Encino attorney and partner in making some fake 427 Cobras , due to his involvement in faking 427 Cobras or something non-related?

1. brian lives on an island off england
2. never heard that tale before, were the cars counterfit csx numbers or just replicas?
trevor legate and other experts hang out at www.clubcobra.com
they can answer almost every question.

 

[B O N Y]

As far as Shelby's latest Cobras not being made in Poland, one day I happened to call up Kirkham in Utah and who answers but the mother of the Kirkham brothers who blithely told me that they and Shelby trade serial numbers on occasion--i.e.they give Shelby so many rollers and he gives them some CSX numbers for some of their cars, which automatically makes them worth more.And the Kirkhams are made in Poland.

Also Ford made the deal on the original GT with Eric Broadley (you had the wrong first name) and it wasn't for the body of the Lola GT but to use the Lola Mk. 6 as a chassis test mule while they developed the GT40.

Two misc. questions I have about the birth of the replica Cobra market are:
1.)where is Brian Angliss today--he being the former owner of AC Cars Ltd.
and developer of the Mk. IV aluminum bodied Cobra replica? Anyone have ans e-mail address for him?

2.)was the murder of Richard Pierce, Encino attorney and partner in making some fake 427 Cobras , due to his involvement in faking 427 Cobras or something non-related?

yup, i am aware of a kirkham that left with an mso and then became a csx
car with a new mso. illegal is not a sick bird. there are lots of differences between an alluminum kirkham and shelby csx car

 

[B O N Y]

Bony, very well done you saved me a lot of typing! :biggrin Atomic, I appreciate your passion for the Shelby name and rightfully so, the guy is an icon. In the same breath don't give him all the credit. His hand in taking the AC and putting in the Ford drivetrain is the stuff history is made of. That was then, this is now. It's not all about infringement or identiy theft, it's about a product that lots of people so appreciated they decided to build their own. Answer me this, why did Shelby disappear for so many years when all of these "replicas" were being built and being called Cobras? Go to www.cobracountry.com and look at every advertised car, their all labeled Cobras. No biggie in my book. When somebody asks me if my Superformance is the real deal I jokingly tell them "yes, and my unmarked security force is right behind them". We laugh and then I explain to them what a SF car is. Good job defending his name though, if I'm ever in a dispute I want you on my side!!! BD40 arty

carroll=capitalist :biggrin

 

[AtomicGT]

BD40

Have no problem with any replica (I had an LA Exotics S/C 427), after my education over these last few days, I suspect SF is one of the best cars available! I have seen them at SAAC meets and agree I can't tell the difference. As to disapperance of Shelby, I believe there are a few reasons. Remember price of gas and the oil imbargo early 1970s? That killed the muscle car business and you could by a Shelby Mustang for a song. Then the tree-huggers came into the scene and it was uncool to be driving a car that burned excessive gas. Decade or two passed, in the meantime Shelby had a heart transplant and I believe a kidney transplant. And the guy set up a Children's Heart Foundation, became a famous Chili Chef, and probably just wanted to recover and wait for a better muscle car climate. So I suspect there was not a major incentive between 1970 and 1990 to get back into the "market" and he was getting free advertising with each kit car produced. Over the past 10 or so years, there is incentive to build these cars again. His health issues are still a major concern and limiting factor, plus the guy is ove 80 now and still going! He is a dealer, hero of mine also, still commands respect and when he puts his name on something it is like King Midas, turns to gold most of the time.

 

[427Aggie]

I've kind of stayed out of this but will throw my 2 cents in

The Shelby Aluminum cars were supplied by Kirkham and assembled at Shelby with some parts that were different.....my understanding is that they no longer supply those bodies and you can only get an aluminum car from Shelby now with the AC body.

On the GT350H cars I have been told that they will rent the cars for 90 days or so then HERTZ has the rights to the auction of the cars....Wonder if they will rent me one for 90 days and I can keep the milage down? Hmmm...

Now for the fun one...All the current cars are Shelby's...right yes...no originals and as such really you are paying for the Shelby name..fine...I really am done with Kits anyway after my ERA Cobra so its not a big deal to me...the 40 is a nice car but if you haven't been in one let me tell you its tight....loud and very very small...as I understand it you will be into the car for about $110K when you are done..and looking at comparable cars (ERA GT40's) for sale right now the CAV's are in the low 60's and the last ERA I saw couldn't get a bid of $75K...so how much could you lose on the car? No idea but I am sure many of you know that when you start getting into the 70~80 range of toys you lose alot of people that will buy them.

I heard an interesting rumor recently that SPF had acquired what Ford couldn't..the rights to the GT40 name and the use of the PXXXX vin numbering sequence...sounds interesting..so are the SPF's then Shelby's? Or real GT40's?

Pfftt..I will keep my GT and buy another one before I go with a kit again.

Matt

 

[Bart Carter]

My take on Shelby and Cobra replicas:

The bottom dropped out of the Cobra market. He could see no profit, only loss if he continued any Cobra sales. He then moved on. (Circa 1967)

The enthusiasm for the Cobra still existed. People offered kits that you could buy to get the experience. (Remember the Arntz, circa 1970). The replica manufacturers continued to develope their kits over the years and developed a whole new market for a Cobra. Shelby at first said "more power to them." He couldn't understand how they could get people to spend money on an "old car." Then he took a harder look at the money that was available and decided the market was strong enough for him to make a profit. Remember, this would never have happened if the replica manufacturers hadn't created this market.

Then he sued everone to try to have the market for himself. The market that others created. The courts found against him on the shape of the Cobra. Abandonment and not able to prove he owned the shape of the body. But they said the Cobra name could not be used. (Ford still protected that.) He would have had far more respect if he had just competed in the replica market with the Shelby name.

He also "found" a lot of old chassis in a warehouse that he said were original '65s and he was going to finish them. He sold at least one for $500,000. Then it was found out that he had them built to make them look like they were originals...Fraud. Criminal investigation, although he did no jail time. Some say it was creativity. Your call. I know that many replica owners have their cars registered as a '65. According to your particular state, it may be legal to do so.

 

[AtomicGT]

Well, I am not sure where are the true facts are, despite everything, he did create an icon, especially when the world outside the US had very little interest in US cars or US manufacturers. Fortunately for both Ford and Shelby American and Holman Moody that Le Mans came into view 1965 and 1966. And Lola had a great looking frame!

Enjoy your car!

 

[Doc]

Please note any corrections:

My records show they made 102 GT40s (Mk 1-1V) from 1964-1969.

Shelby made 655 Cobra 260s and 289s from 1962-1965. I think the early cars had the worm steering.

Shelby made 348 Cobra big-blocks (427/428).

They made 6 Cobra Daytona Coupes.

Original Cobras are the CSX 2000 and CSX 3000

Are the small block cars the CSX 2000 and the big block cars the CSX 3000?

I know that many replica owners have their cars registered as a '65. According to your particular state, it may be legal to do so.

I was interested in buying a completed Cobra replica (FF0) at one time ($18K; with receipts for $35K).

The car was registered as a late model. The State of GA would allow me to title the car, but my county of residence indicated that the car had to pass emissions (req. in Atl area) in order to get a tag. I decided that the cost of upgrading the engine was too expensive to attempt the conversion.

Out of curiosity, I read the GA law concerning getting a proper title on a new replica. The law, as I read it, indicated that the vehicle would be assigned a year model based on the manufacturing date of the chassis.

Most of the cars that I see FS are titled as '65 when they were, in fact, made in the last few years. I assume other states must allow a vehicle to be titled in other ways (IE: the year of the engine)?

 

[B O N Y]

Yup, none of the continuation series CSX3000 can ever be registered in California. They are banned by DMV. Better know what you are doing when it comes to replicas and new construction hot rods in Calfornia or you might not be staying at the Ritz Carlton but the Gray Bar Hotel.

 

[Kirby Vieira]

The Cobra pecking order is Original, CSX 3000 "Completion", CSX 4000/7000/1000 aluminum "continuation", and then Fiberglass.

 

[bigdan40]

All great info, what a wealth of knowledge on this site! I'm going to post some photos in the gallery of my Superformance with the Roush 427R polished motor if anyone is interested in checking out the fit and finish. BD40 :thumbsup

 

[Bart Carter]

...despite everything, he did create an icon, especially when the world outside the US had very little interest in US cars or US manufacturers...

No one can dispute that. Growing up in the 60s, the Cobra / GT40 cars were the ultimate. In some ways they still are. :biggrin

When the Cobra won the championship and the GT40 won LeMans, everyone in America was cheering. If it weren't for Shelby, that wouldn't have happened. Not only did he field the FIA Cobras, Shelby was brought in to make the GT40 a winner. Not to mention the GT350s that were wining championships in the US.

 

[AtomicGT]

bigdan40

Nice pictures, gorgeous car!