Saturn's a goner


djs

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Jun 7, 2007
2,082
Penske/Saturn acquisition talks fell apart yesterday. Saturn and the 13,000+ employees are done.

Sun sets on Saturn: GM kills fading star brand
By TOM KRISHER and KIMBERLY S. JOHNSON (AP) – 2 hours ago

DETROIT — For those who expected General Motors' once-funky Saturn brand to live on with a new owner, there has been a sad twist. Saturn, once billed as a different kind of car company, appears as dead as Pontiac and Oldsmobile.

At the brand's 350 remaining dealers around the country, there were high hopes that a deal would be announced for GM to sell the brand to former race car driver and auto industry magnate Roger Penske.

Instead, Penske Automotive Group Inc. announced Wednesday it is walking away from the deal, unable to find a manufacturer to make Saturn cars when GM stops producing models sometime after the end of 2011. GM then announced it would stop making Saturns and soon would close down the brand, just like it did with Oldsmobile in 2004 and soon will do with Pontiac.

The day's events mean an almost certain end to Saturn, a brand that was set up in 1990 to fight growing Japanese imports. Instead of celebrating a rebirth, the announcements sent dealers scrambling for ways to stay open and preserve about 13,000 jobs.

"I find this hard to believe," said Carl Galeana, owner of two Saturn dealerships in suburban Detroit. "Everyone's been saying we're right at the goal line."

Although GM and Penske reached a tentative agreement to sell the brand in June, the deal collapsed Wednesday after Penske was told by an unidentified manufacturer that its board had rejected a deal to make cars for the new Saturn.

"It was a stunning turn of events," said GM spokesman Tom Pyden, who added that most of the details between GM and Penske had been worked out and both sides expected to announce this week that the deal had been closed.

GM had agreed to keep building three Saturn models even beyond 2011, but after that, Penske had to come up with its own products made by another manufacturer.

Penske spokesman Anthony Pordon said there is little if any chance that the talks could be reopened. Without another supplier in place before the deal was signed, Penske couldn't run the risk of taking on Saturn, Pordon said.

It takes several years to design new vehicles or engineer foreign vehicles to meet U.S. standards. Penske would risk having no products to sell once the GM contract expired.

The French automaker Renault discussed building cars for Penske but Renault spokeswoman Frederique Le Greves said in an e-mail Thursday that "the conditions for an agreement have not been found." She said the decision was made by the Renault executive board.

Penske's purchase price was never disclosed, and he will not have to pay a termination fee, Pyden said. Penske shares tumbled $1.13, or 5.9 percent, to $18.05 in premarket trading Thursday.

GM will stop making Saturns as soon as possible, but no layoffs are expected, said spokeswoman Sherrie Childers Arb. Saturns are made at plants in Kansas City, Kan.; Delta Township, Mich., near Lansing and Ramos Arizpe, Mexico.

"Those plants produce products for other brands, and we think we can increase volume on those products that will meet market demand," Childers Arb said.

Saturn owners can still go to their dealers for service. They will also be able to go to a certified GM dealer once Saturn dealerships close, GM said.

Stephen Spivey, senior auto analyst for Frost and Sullivan, said he was surprised Penske had no alternative plan for a manufacturer.

"There are lots of car companies in the world. I'm surprised they had all their eggs in one basket," he said, adding that other companies may still be interested in the dealership network.

Penske, who could not be reached for comment, said in a June interview that foreign automakers would be key to making Saturn succeed, but they would have to match GM's quality standards before Saturn's dealer network would distribute their products.

Bloomfield Hills-based Penske Automotive owns the second-largest U.S. automobile dealer chain. The company also distributes Daimler AG's Smart subcompacts in the U.S. and has race teams in the IndyCar, NASCAR and Grand-Am series.

Galeana said he's heard nothing yet from GM or Saturn, but if the plan is to phase out the brand and cut the products, he'll have to come up with other options.

"I assumed if you're at the goal line, those things would have been figured out," he said Wednesday. "We're going to try to put some plan Bs in place at this point."

Galeana said he's concerned for his employees and still hopes the deal can be resurrected.

"It's tough out there, but we'll keep fighting. That's all we can do."

GM Chairman Roger Smith first unveiled the Saturn brand in November 1983. But the project was slow to develop and the brand did not officially launch until 1990. It featured the iconic tag-line "a different kind of car company" and people were attracted by its low-key showrooms and no-haggle pricing.

GM's hope was that Saturn, with its dent-free plastic panels, would attract younger buyers with smaller, hipper cars. It built a new plant in Spring Hill, Tenn., devoted to Saturn vehicles.

Despite a cult-like following that drew thousands to annual reunions in Spring Hill, the brand never made money, although the company has never disclosed how much it invested or lost. The Tennessee factory stopped making Saturns in 2007. Although it was retooled to make Chevrolet crossovers, it's now scheduled to close. A parts plant in Spring Hill will stay open in the short term, but its future was unclear.

As GM focused more on high-profit pickup trucks and SUVs, Saturn began to languish in the late 1990s. Then in 2006, car buyers began to find Saturn's new models more appealing. But after a good year in 2007, sales dropped last year as the U.S. car market withered. Through August, Saturn sales were down 60 percent from the first eight months of last year.

GM has been trying to sell Saturn since earlier this year as part of its turnaround plan.

AP Auto Writer Bree Fowler in New York contributed to this report.
 
sorry to hear, but they never made anything I would have been interested in buying.
 
+1 on both points...but, it's sad to see something like this. 'So many people 'hurt.

But, I guess if Mr. Penske couldn't make it all come together that alone should tell us something... :frown
 
...they never made anything I would have been interested in buying.

Except for the Cadillac CTS and XLR, and the Corvettes (& maybe the 2500 HD and 3500 trucks), I think thats true for the rest of their current lineup. They should have kept Pontiac and got rid of Buick. I'm not even very fond of the Cameros.
 
Of course I feel for the many families that will be hurt, but, every step closer to the demise of the Union brings tears to my eyes.
 
The really amazing thing about Saturn, other than the fact it took between 5 and 7 years to get it up and running from concept to manufacturing and selling cars, is that the company never contributed dime one to the profitability of the General. Estimates range that Saturn cost GM a net $20Billion over its lifetime. I know there's plenty of blame to go around, but that fact alone is astounding.
 
He can pick them up for 75% off in bankruptcy court....

Made no sense to buy them; he has more leverage with the dealer network and the next auto supplier this way
 
He can pick them up for 75% off in bankruptcy court....

Made no sense to buy them; he has more leverage with the dealer network and the next auto supplier this way


'DARN GOOD POINT. You're absolutely right. :agree: The only fly in the ointment there is others could be "bidding". But, net, net, net, whomever prevailed would STILL pbly save big $$$ as you stated.
 
75% reduction in bankrupcy vs pre-bankrupcy is good benchmark.
Even at that, few will be interested IMHO.
AJB
 
He can pick them up for 75% off in bankruptcy court....

Made no sense to buy them; he has more leverage with the dealer network and the next auto supplier this way

75% reduction in bankrupcy vs pre-bankrupcy is good benchmark.
Even at that, few will be interested IMHO.
AJB


With all that in mind, why do you suppose R.P. bothered to explore the purchase BEFORE HAND at all? 'Figured there could be bigger, better concessions/arrangements on the part of all concerned than actually materialized, perhaps?:shrug
 
With all that in mind, why do you suppose R.P. bothered to explore the purchase BEFORE HAND at all? 'Figured there could be bigger, better concessions/arrangements on the part of all concerned than actually materialized, perhaps?:shrug

Wanted to be the first guy in doing due diligence??
 
Correct. Once you are considered a 'credible buyer', the due-dilligence process starts and virtually the books are opened up to you for review and question. At that point not only are you interested in buying, but the selling entity begins to 'sell you' as much as they can on the benefits of becomming the new owner.
AJB
 
Thats a bummer.
Buy American!!!
 
Roger Smith's legacy.

The really amazing thing about Saturn, other than the fact it took between 5 and 7 years to get it up and running from concept to manufacturing and selling cars, is that the company never contributed dime one to the profitability of the General. Estimates range that Saturn cost GM a net $20 billion over its lifetime. I know there's plenty of blame to go around, but that fact alone is astounding.

Gentlemen,

Saturn was a boondoggle from the get go. When this new General Motors Division was first talked about, I was a Pontiac-GMC Truck dealer in Scottsdale, Arizona. The quality of our cars was mediocre and all General Motors divisions were in need of fresh product and new investments in higher efficiency and better quality assembly plants. There were already rumblings back then about eliminating the Pontiac Division because General Motors had too many different nameplates and redundant models. Roger Smith, who is probably the worst CEO in General Motors history, was calling the shots back then. His primary objective was building a lasting legacy to himself in the form of the Saturn division. He actually delayed his retirement so that he could personally drive the first Saturn produced off of the assembly line. In order to accomplish this he bled Pontiac, Oldsmobile, and Buick of billions of dollars in capital that he poured into Saturn while other GM facilities withered and shut down. General Motors dealers howled like a stuck pig to no avail.

Roger Smith got his Saturn Division, and today, it is a fitting monument to his stupidity. When he drove that first Saturn off the end of the assembly line, Roger Smith's red face, bald head, and squeaky high pitched voice made him look as ridiculous as Michael Dukakis driving the tank. If all the money poured down the Saturn rathole had been invested in General Motors existing divisions, Oldsmobile and Pontiac might still be extant. This observation is not Monday morning quarterbacking. This is the precise result that thousands of General Motors dealers predicted and complained to our factory representatives about 20 years ago.

Chip
 
the unfortunate truth here is that a 20 year old company that seemed to finally building some decent product is now dead. No start-up in history no matter what DNA it is infused with seems to build a good car for at least 10 years. (the only minor exceptions are the boutique exotics ... and at times that is debatable)

It takes time for a company to mature to begin to do it right. Now that talent is scattered or split or down sized or soon will be. America's manufacturing base is eroding violently and will likely go the way of the dinosaur. Services do not stock shelves. You can not eat them, drive them, wear them, own them. Product is king only when product is tangible, hard and real.

I would rather a company like Tesla absorb the Saturn brand than it simply just go away. Use what is good ... rebrand and expand. But only if made in USA. just my two cents.....

Now I will go back to my cave.
 
Textbook case of corporate stupidity. Saturn got the majority of their customers from Chevrolet and Pontiac and before that Oldsmobile. Saturn never made a dime for GM, in fact cost them billions while they raped the other divisions. Exactly, who were the board of directors that watched this go on for years and years. Future generations will use this in college as a textbook case of corporate stupidity. How to steal your own customers and lose billions of dollars. Ponder the history of GM without Saab, Hummer and Saturn, all were millstones around their corporate neck. Why would the government bring back any of their former executives? I guess they want history to repeat itself. I often wonder where Ford would be, had they not squandered billions on Jag,Land Rover and Volvo. They destroyed the Lincoln-Mercury brand by stealing all of the product development money to feed these stupid purchases and they also lost billions of dollars. The question for all time. Why would you buy or build a car division to compete with your self?
 
Sort of off the business side of this subject but I had the first Saturn Sky in Houston. The original did not have a turbo and was underpowered but handled like it was on rails. The have taken the ecotec engine above 500 hp with mods and run 11's at the quarter. Still I let it go once I purchased the Gt since I did not need 2 two seaters. Wonder if it will be worth anything one day? BTW-The picture is with my cobra, had the 2 paint jobs matched and added a hood scoop to Sky. Was really a head turner. It was so slow it couldn't get out of its own shadow. Was supposed to be for my 16 yr old son first car. Repeat SLOW. His friends thought it looked gay so we traded for a new Nissan Titan Pickup. Kids!!!!!

Larry
 

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All that aside...how do you get 4 cars into a 3 car garage!

(I know how I use to do that...one car "sideways" in the back. But, the garage I'm referring to is d-e-e-p. 'Your's too?! Or is the garage space to the left of the 3 doors in the pic big enough to allow all 4 cars to sit side by side?)
 
EP

The middle door is a two car deep! BUT! That doesn't help. Only 2 toys I have left are the Cobra and GT. I have a lift in the back space of the 2 deep middle door and one or the other stays on top! Seems like the one on top is ALWAYS the one I want to drive that day. I use the right side for my working area and the left side is for the golf cart. All the Daily Drivers live in the drive way. Wife makes a comment several times a week about a four car garage, with a lift, and she still has to park her Subaru Tribeca outside. I could get it inside but why spoil her!:lol:lol The funny thing I always notice about the 4 car picture is how big the Shelby GT 500 is compared to the GT kit car. The top of the kit car @ 40" was below the window seal of the GT 500. The kit car was very original...

BTW-Good Sunday Morning!!

Larry
 
The funny thing I always notice about the 4 car picture is how big the Shelby GT 500 is compared to the GT kit car.

BTW-Good Sunday Morning!!

Larry


And a good Sunday morning you as well, sir!

Ya, I was gunna comment on the "size" thing too, but got side tracted by the phone. The size thing ALWAYS sticks out whenever a FGT is grouped with darn near any other ride too.

I've been seriously thinking about buying a couple additional hoists for my detached garage so I can get a few more rides in there. But, we're in a quake zone...so, that makes for some reeeeeeal soul searching...! No matter were I put WHAT, the Oakland 'Bridge scenario would pbly be the result in "the big one"! (And, you're right! No matter WHICH car was on top - THAT would be the one I would wanna drive for some reason, too!)