New GTsaver "Classic" Exhaust System

[Ed Sims]

high pipes

Black Ice - My motorcycle pipes have burned more people than I can recall. Quite a few of them still have the scars! A 4W drive vehicle, especially a lifted one, will all have high pipes. If you're going to get burned at least make it by a GT!

Ed

 

[BlackICE]

Black Ice - My motorcycle pipes have burned more people than I can recall. Quite a few of them still have the scars! A 4W drive vehicle, especially a lifted one, will all have high pipes. If you're going to get burned at least make it by a GT!

Ed

Yeh, but lawyers only take contingency cases from people with deep pockets. Motorcycle and 4w drive vehicle don't spell money, but when the lawyer sees its a GT, he will assume that the owner has a good umbrella policy to go after it.

 

[analogdesigner]

original street versions of the GT40's

How did the original street versions of the GT40's get by?

 

[BlackICE]

How did the original street versions of the GT40's get by?

A different time, with rational and reasonable people running the country. No one got sued for hot coffee then too. I am not a lawyer and this is only my opinion, but I think it would be a slam dunk case if a small child fried their face, or a model burned her legs on the tips. Then the plaintiff can claim permanent disfigurement and go for the big bucks. Just burning fingers won't be that bad. Of course the burns would have to be severe enough to cause long term scaring.

The logic would be the car is not meet DOT specs and has been modified to place the exhaust tips in a dangerous location that is not typical of any production car made in the last 30+ years. A reasonable person would not expect dangerously hot part to be easily contacted in during routine walking patterns in a parking lot.

But, what the hell do I know. Let the real legal experts on the board chime in.

 

[SYCO GT]

(From the internet, for educational purposes only, not independently verified by me, not intended as a commentary)

McDonalds coffee and the Liebeck lawsuit
Lis Riba, 2000

Here are some facts about what really happened:

At the trial, it was revealed:

* McDonalds required their coffee kept at 185 degrees Fahrenheit, plus or minus 5 degrees, significantly higher than other establishments. [Coffee is usually served at 135 to 140 degrees]
* An expert testified that 180 degree liquids will cause full thickness burns in 2 to 7 seconds.
* McDonalds knew before this accident that burn hazards exist with any foods served above 140 degrees.
* McDonalds knew that its coffee would burn drinkers at the temperature they served it.
* McDonalds research showed that customers consumed coffee immediately while driving.
* McDonalds knew of over 700 people burned by its coffee, including many third-degree burns similar to Ms. Liebeck's.
* McDonalds had received previous requests from consumers and safety organizations to lower their coffee temperature.

There were many things McDonalds could've done to prevent injuries:

* lowering the holding temperature of their coffee,
* putting warning labels on the cups not to drink immediately,
* redesigning the cups to minimize tipping or prevent drinking in cars

McDonalds knew of the risk and knew scores of injured customers, but did nothing to mitigate the chance of injury.

Evidence showed that McDonalds served their coffee so hot to save money. This let them get away with a cheaper grade of coffee and cut down on the number of free refills they had to give away. McDonalds executives testified that they thought it would be cheaper to pay claims and worker's compensation benefits to people burned by their coffee versus making any of these changes.

Even the trial court judge called McDonalds' conduct willful, wanton, reckless and callous.

On to the situation at hand:

* Stella Liebeck, age 79, was a passenger in the car.
* The car was at a full stop so she could add cream and sugar to her coffee. [She was not the driver and the car was not moving.]
* The cup tipped and spilled over her lap.
* Within a few seconds, Ms. Liebeck suffered third-degree burns over 6 percent of her body, including her inner thighs, perineum, buttocks, genitals and groin.
* Ms. Liebeck was hospitalized for 8 days, and required skin grafting and debridement treatments.
* Parts of Ms. Liebeck's body were permanently scarred.
* Ms. Liebeck tried to settle with McDonald's for $20,000 to cover her medical expenses. McDonalds offered her $800. She sought mediation, but McDonald's refused.
* The jury initially awarded Ms. Liebeck the equivalent of two days worth of coffee sales for McDonalds as punitive damages.
* The trial judge reduced the verdict to something under $600,000.

McDonalds has since lowered the temperature on their coffee.

Information comes primarily from http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm

Other sources I used and/or would recommend on this case are:

* http://www.accidentline.com/McDonalds.htm
* http://www.google.com/search?q=cach...w4business.com/justice-lawyer-lawsuit-faq.htm
* http://www.vamedmal.com/mainpages/FAQ.htm
* http://www.omnology.com/mcds.html
* http://quellerfisher.ljextra.com/liebeck.html
* http://web.langston.com/Fun_People/1997/1997BCY.html
* http://www.bhm.tis.net/jury/corner/dec09b.html
* http://insuranceattorney.com/McDonaldsCoffeeSpill.htm
* http://www.andrewprince.com/SOMECOLDarticle3.html

 

[BlackICE]

Syco good info. Known dangers without taking remedial actions = libility!

Mc Donalds was right about the saving, but acted wrong. They should have paid the 20k.

 

[SYCO GT]

Repeated bad actions (or omissions) by defendants can lead to what appears to be bad case law...The rulings at first glance do not immediately convey culpability or recklessness, as a study of the facts sometimes reveals.

Perhaps by looking into the particular facts of a case, one can sometimes have a chance at understanding what factors may contribute to particular decisions, which at first glance, may appear unjust or irrational.

And certainly, there are occasions where decisions occur that possibly are unjust and/or irrational. There are many variables to civil jury trials, and I am certainly no expert in summarizing or explaining the interaction and relative importance of such factors on the minds and deliberation process of multiple individuals, as well as collective group behavior under pressure, or otherwise.

But, back to your point, each individual should (and likely already does) consider and assess relative benefits and potential dangers arising from modifications on a motor vehicle, and not necessarily from only a liability standpoint, but moreso from a self-imposed safety or moral perspective.

(This is not intended as legal advice, purely a basis for discussion, and definitely not intended to be inflammatory or judgmental in any way).

 

[analogdesigner]

I bet you won't lean against the back of the car but once with those hot puppies stickin out!!!:rofl :rofl

So, what does it mean if someone has a hot ass??? At least you won't get pregnant from this damn thing! :eek

 

[B O N Y]

Hard fact, anybody that sells anything has serious exposure. My corporate counsel warned me years ago about personal sales. Including never take any compensation for rides (including a cold one, sharing gas, paying for meals or rooms) because when something goes wrong friends wind up on the other side of the court room.

 

[analogdesigner]

Including never take any compensation for rides (including a cold one, sharing gas, paying for meals or rooms) because when something goes wrong friends wind up on the other side of the court room.

bony,

That's an interesting point.

 

[fjpikul]

That's why I'm installing the fire system, so when my nuclear reactor light goes.......

 

[SteveA]

IMO the pipe Jay designed does exactly what he set out to do, reproduce the classic look of the original cars exhaust exit point.:thumbsup . A little clean up of the screen area and maybe shorten the tips just a tad and it will have a cool distinctive retro look.

 

[Sinovac]

Nicely done Syco GT

Quite frankly, I'm tired of the McDonald's case being used as an example of how our civil justice system is broken when, in fact, it clearly demonstrates the system generally works.

 

[analogdesigner]

GT40 exhaust tip length?

IMO the pipe Jay designed does exactly what he set out to do, reproduce the classic look of the original cars exhaust exit point.:thumbsup . A little clean up of the screen area and maybe shorten the tips just a tad and it will have a cool distinctive retro look.

Steve,

Do you happen to know the actual length?

Thanks, Jay

 

[Fubar]

 

[SteveA]

Steve,

Do you happen to know the actual length?

Thanks, Jay

Jay, I think you nailed the lenght right on.:thumbsup I was refering to peoples concern of possible burns. But then every motorcycle made has an exposed pipe so WTH?

 

[B O N Y]

Dozens of examples with different pipes due to the mods done over the years.

 

[analogdesigner]

excellent example

Fu,

Thanks for the excellent example!

Steve,

Yeah, I am just going to leave it alone. If this system ever goes up for sale, the buyer could specify the tip length.

Jay

 

[Fubar]

Check out that white powder in the pipes... 110oct or more?

 

[SteveA]

Dozens of examples with different pipes due to the mods done over the years.

Interesting. I know a few cars tried Indy 4cyl. motors with poor results, the car was too heavy for a low Tq. high rpm motor. I have no idea how they ran the exhaust. All cars with fitted with V-8's by Ford had the now famous "bundles of snakes" style (except the hand full of proposed street MKIII's) and the pipes exited in the same area as the light blue car. Most of these cars ran no muffler or a single muffler and the exit pipes were very close together (like our cars), a few ran two seperate mufflers in which the distance between the two exit pipes was a little greater.