How do you respond to someone who says:

[gzl]

…..."I have no interest in a car you have to apply for"?
I was talking to a fellow car aficionado who offered that unsolicited thought to me when I mentioned what a great car the new Ford GT appears to be.
Is this really any different than say Ferrari's loyalty approach?

 

[Gene Cassone]

Does he own any limited production cars in high demand? I would go directly to the the parent company anytime and be awarded an allocation based on exactly what was asked in the GT application . Otherwise it goes to the highest bidder!.
Ferrari's loyalty approach is based on just that ,loyalty, but usually based on a particular dealer.

 

[SYCO GT]

There are a couple ways to interpret the application process.

He must have had some initial interest in the NFGT to know about the application process.

So, let's assume that he would agree that the NFGT is a desirable car.

Then, he could either:

1) Believe that the application process is some ploy to spark interest or false demand. I mean, I myself was surprised that the very fact that the car appears harder to get because of the application process, means that some people actually want the car more. But, I'm not sure that's the intent. I mean with only 250 cars per year, the demand is going to outstrip supply, that is a given. So, I see this simply as a means to allocate a car.

2) Feel that it's not worth the trouble. Then, in this case, that's totally fine. Again, I don't necessarily see that as the intent behind this, but if it does, by itself, dissuade those that are not genuinely interested in the car, then that's fine.

3) Perhaps he is in a position where he's never had to apply for anything. That he can purchase or otherwise negotiate his way around allocations. Then perhaps he will acquire one anyway, eventually, or in a manner in which he is comfortable.

Personally, I think the concept of allocation through application is a good one. However, time will tell. Nothing is perfect. There is no guarantee the cars will end up in the hands of those that will most enjoy them or will serve the purposes intended by the committee or by Ford. But at least they are trying. And Ford is also trying to even out the marketplace by eliminating the ADM. Not sure how the franchise dealers feel about that, but I'm only an enthusiast, so from my perspective, it's a good thing in this case.

There is no method that is going to be absolutely fair in every single case, plus what some people think is fair, is going to be entirely different from what others believe is fair.

 

[dbk]

The application process is unique because the car is unique, both in the way it is produced and who produces it. Ford isn't perpetually in the business of building full-CF body half-million dollar supercars. Regarding the similarity to Ferrari, that's not a complete comparison. I'll have to quote myself on the difference from a previous post:

"Ferrari is, and always has been, in the business of selling a succession of expensive sports cars. Their entire sales system is predicated on putting customers in an endless stream of new and used car purchases if they want to retain or advance their position in said stream to get the best new versions. Everyone is aware of this when they enter the stream, everyone is aware of exactly where the stream is heading, and everyone is aware the stream will be populated with new supercars from here to eternity.

Ford's model range today bases from $14k - 50k. There was zero expectation from Ford GT owners or any other loyal customer that Ford was going to produce an ultra low volume specialty vehicle with a base price nearly 10x that of any other product the company sells and that they would receive special consideration for their prior purchase history. They bought what they bought because they wanted it; the kept it because they loved it. No other enticement necessary.

With Ford, loyalty is getting a reward as a pleasant and unexpected surprise.

With Ferrari, "loyalty" is the expected cost of doing business."

It's strange to me when people derisively refer to the new GT application process as being similar to what Ferrari does. It seems to me that the comparison immediately falls apart in such a ridiculously obvious way.

If you want to affect your chances for a top range V12 Ferrari, whether it's in the year 2017, or in the year 2035, you need to start buying Ferraris now, keep buying them, and trade/sell them in a way favorable to Ferrari. You can also start signing up to spend $15k on Cavalcade, or you can buy a Challenge car and spend a couple million bucks doing that.

If you want to affect your chances of getting a new Ford GT, you need to build a time machine.

Seems pretty obviously different.

The volume is what the volume is. There may be some complaints about the application process, but if someone feels like the application process is beneath them, I'd be interested to know if they are cool with the only way the allocation of this type of scarce resource is handled in an open market - market price. There'd be a lot more complaints if the cars ended up in showrooms marked up $250-500k, or permanently in bubbles awaiting the Gooding & Co. Fall 2046 auction.

 

[SYCO GT]

There'd be a lot more complaints if the cars ended up in showrooms marked up $250-500k, or permanently in bubbles awaiting the Gooding & Co. Fall 2046 auction.

Or maybe there wouldn't have been. Some people fear change. They like what they are used to. Nothing to upset the apple cart.

One of the things that I don't like about the practice of law, for example, is it's reliance on precedence, or the past. For certainty and predictability, most likely.

But what if the status quo needs to be changed? Or what if another option might be better?

I like that Ford decided to go a different way with this. It might not be perfect, but I agree, and in my opinion too, it's much better than any of the traditional methods.

 

[dbk]

Or maybe there wouldn't have been. Some people fear change. They like what they are used to. Nothing to upset the apple cart.

Trust me, based on the volume of complaints over GT350s marked up by $10k, it would have been a lot worse. :lol

 

[598]

I have been very patient in writing this response, and maybe it doesn't belong here. DBK, your call. We all knew this would come up and here is my take. A very good friend of mine, with a lot more money than me, bought one of the earliest 05 GTs. Paid at the time stupid money, and didn't care. Still has it. I don't have that budget. I waited, and when the 06 cars had no home, went to buy a Tungsten car from a not too far away dealer. Had what I would consider a reasonable gentleman's agreement on the phone, at slightly under list, on a 600 mile car that had well worn rear tires. Was greeted before I could get to the roped off car, and then the salesman told me that the dealer wanted $200 K for the car and wasn't available. Every car an EBAY was way under list at that point. I had my 6 year old son in tow, and a held his hand as we walked to the door. I told the salesman that I was there to write a check for the car, but he could tell his owner FXXX you. My son said, dad , you cussed. I told him that once in a while its called for. That is why I don't own an 06 GT. It is not sour grapes. I went and bought a race winning 95 R and still own it. I can trace my ford roots to a 1965 Ford Galaxie convertible (352) that I dragged out of a ditch when I was 14 for $30. Still own it too. It made financial sense for an upper middle class American to buy a 05-06 Ford GT. A street car designed after a historic race car, cheaper than a Ferrari 360, faster, and way more reliable. The new GT is out of that price range, is a race car tub moving to the street, and will only be owned by the elite, or perceived elite. I won't bid, but I'm not bitter to those who do. But you have to admit, it is a different marketplace.

 

[FENZO]

Seems pretty obviously different.

I'm honestly confused. Different? Yes, but essentially the same. "Loyalty" has a single definition, no matter if you are looking into the future or at the past, right? Perhaps reward vs award is a better description. Meaning Ford owners are rewarded with past loyalty whereas Ferrari owners can be awarded with current/future loyalty. (Awards are sought, Rewards are given regardless if they are sought)

I like to think that Ford is stepping out of that paradigm and into one that is completely unique. Just like they did with this car.

If the last two allocations are between a guy with a business that purchased 1000 F150s and has 4 sub 1K mi GTs and a guy that has put 80K mi on his GT but drives a Toyota to work... who will it go to? Youtube presence aside.

Is Ford rewarding loyal customers or trying to get more? I'd bet a nickel that the majority of '05/'06 cars are sub 10K mi (congrats to spec buyers).

This is a discussion post...read it in an English accent. and smile at every period. :thumbsup

 

[SYCO GT]

I like to think that Ford is stepping out of that paradigm and into one that is completely unique. Just like they did with this car.
This is a discussion post...read it in an English accent. and smile at every period. :thumbsup

I like to think it's meant to be unique and different too. And it seems like the very fact that it exists and that it appears thoughtfully constructed (again not perfect)

I guess we won't really know until the allocations are made. And even then, we'll probably never really know. I do think people with 80K+ miles on their GT's would have a better shot. But I'm not on the committee so it really doesn't matter.

Read it in Scarlett Johansson's smokey voice. Sounds better that way.

 

[SYCO GT]

If the last two allocations are between a guy with a business that purchased 1000 F150s and has 4 sub 1K mi GTs and a guy that has put 80K mi on his GT but drives a Toyota to work... who will it go to? Youtube presence aside.

Shoot. Tricked again. It goes to both. Since there are two allocations available.

 

[FENZO]

Shoot. Tricked again. It goes to both. Since there are two allocations available.

How much dirt is in a 1' x 1' x 1' hole? Clearly I am still confused. Applicants.. allocations... big words.

If the two applicants for the last allocation.... who? :biggrin

 

[Brombear]

Easy answer: Great, one potential applicant less !

 

[dbk]

I'm honestly confused. Different? Yes, but essentially the same. "Loyalty" has a single definition, no matter if you are looking into the future or at the past, right? Perhaps reward vs award is a better description.

Well here's a couple definitions of loyalty:

• a feeling of strong support for someone or something
• a strong feeling of support or allegiance.

Obviously legitimate loyalty and participation in the system at Ferrari are not mutually exclusive, and there are a great many extremely die hard Ferrari fans that buy all the cars simply because they want them. But it's entirely possible to not have any particular attachment to Ferrari and just put up with the system and buy the stuff because you know there's a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. You can't just hop in line and get a TdF, so if you want one (or whatever version is 5-10 years down the road), you have to get in there.

I would say it's reasonable to alter a perception of loyalty depending on whether or not the subject knows there's a tangible reward down the road. In the case of the GT, if you were a loyal Ford customer previously, it's not because you had to do it to get a new GT, because you didn't even know that was a possibility.

 

[FENZO]

I would say it's reasonable to alter a perception of loyalty depending on whether or not the subject knows there's a tangible reward down the road. In the case of the GT, if you were a loyal Ford customer previously, it's not because you had to do it to get a new GT, because you didn't even know that was a possibility.

Good point. Apples to aircraft carriers really.

I bet there are a lot of execs elsewhere looking around the room.. "Why didn't you think of that?!"

The '60s GT40 story... the '05/6 perfection.... 2016 race car making racing tolerable again.. 2017 race car street car... There's sorcery afoot or someone has a crystal ball.

The approach is so flawless I can't wrap my head around it. I was a Ford GT guy, somehow they are turning me into a Ford guy by promising me exactly nothing. Maybe I'll buy the Explorer instead of the Jeep GC. Mind blown.

 

[soroush]

There are a couple ways to interpret the application process.

He must have had some initial interest in the NFGT to know about the application process.

So, let's assume that he would agree that the NFGT is a desirable car.

Then, he could either:

1) Believe that the application process is some ploy to spark interest or false demand. I mean, I myself was surprised that the very fact that the car appears harder to get because of the application process, means that some people actually want the car more. But, I'm not sure that's the intent. I mean with only 250 cars per year, the demand is going to outstrip supply, that is a given. So, I see this simply as a means to allocate a car.

2) Feel that it's not worth the trouble. Then, in this case, that's totally fine. Again, I don't necessarily see that as the intent behind this, but if it does, by itself, dissuade those that are not genuinely interested in the car, then that's fine.

3) Perhaps he is in a position where he's never had to apply for anything. That he can purchase or otherwise negotiate his way around allocations. Then perhaps he will acquire one anyway, eventually, or in a manner in which he is comfortable.

Personally, I think the concept of allocation through application is a good one. However, time will tell. Nothing is perfect. There is no guarantee the cars will end up in the hands of those that will most enjoy them or will serve the purposes intended by the committee or by Ford. But at least they are trying. And Ford is also trying to even out the marketplace by eliminating the ADM. Not sure how the franchise dealers feel about that, but I'm only an enthusiast, so from my perspective, it's a good thing in this case.

There is no method that is going to be absolutely fair in every single case, plus what some people think is fair, is going to be entirely different from what others believe is fair.

Randy you are defiantly a lawyer I believe the simple answer here would be..... no interest? don't buy! unless someone is forcing the poor fellow to fill up the application in which case, then you can play your "let me cradle your fragile ego" so that you can feel better about the app process

 

[Sinovac]

When I purchased my '06 GT new, I thought it would be the only "supercar" I would ever own since I had no idea that a new car would be built. If I don't get a NGT, my '06 GT will remain my only supercar unless, of course, I can buy version 4.0 in 2035.

 

[SYCO GT]

no interest? don't buy!

Well said!

But why say in four words what one can say in four hundred?

But yes, we're all very lucky that Ford took the time to create and moderate this process!

 

[33Bravo]

Good point. Apples to aircraft carriers really.

I bet there are a lot of execs elsewhere looking around the room.. "Why didn't you think of that?!"

The '60s GT40 story... the '05/6 perfection.... 2016 race car making racing tolerable again.. 2017 race car street car... There's sorcery afoot or someone has a crystal ball.

The approach is so flawless I can't wrap my head around it. I was a Ford GT guy, somehow they are turning me into a Ford guy by promising me exactly nothing. Maybe I'll buy the Explorer instead of the Jeep GC. Mind blown.

What he said. Brilliant