Electric cars and the impact on the environment


MTV8

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Jul 24, 2010
916
Houston Texas
I was guessing a Chinese manufacturer.
Would you consider Apple to be a Chinese manufacturer?
 

2112

Blue/white 06'
Mark II Lifetime
Would you consider Apple to be a Chinese manufacturer?
Hah, technically, yes.
.
 

PeteK

GT Owner
Apr 18, 2014
1,301
Kalama, WA
Awsum: I think if you look back through this thread, you will find that few of us have criticized the cars. Instead, the great majority of us are criticizing the company and Musk's excessive puffery that many would consider lying and fraud. I have praised the performance of the Model S, and electric drive in general, and believe that some form of electric drive will predominate the future of our hobby because it has so many advantages. A close friend of mine used to own a P90D Model S, but he got tired of dealing with the company because it look so long just to get parts to fix the car for the few problems he had. He bumped a concrete parking block that broke the lower spoiler, and it took more than 3 months to get a replacement. Stuff like that. So he turned in his lease Model S early and now drives a MB E550. (for more on this, see my post of 25 April 2018)

The value of TSLA has dropped 40% in a few months because investors have run out of patience and no longer believe Elon Musk. I'm just surprised it took this long. It has a lot further to fall.

MTV8: Yes, many dislike Elon the loudmouth and want to see him eat his words, but the problems with these cars are not "fabricated." Tesla has gone from one of the best cars Consumer Reports ever tested, to their "Not Recommended" list. That's not due to febrile imagination. That's due to reports from people who own them.
 
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Awsum GT

GT Owner '05 & '18
Mark IV Lifetime
Sep 17, 2005
3,894
Central California
I am in no way standing up for Musk. I agree he should stop his puffing and misstatements. It surely isn’t helping his car company. All I was saying is we have had excellent luck with the 4 we have owned/leased. I would never buy one... lease only for me. I also hope the electric cars never replace our gas cars that we all enjoy.
 

Awsum GT

GT Owner '05 & '18
Mark IV Lifetime
Sep 17, 2005
3,894
Central California
Uh oh Tesla on the move again. Hope you short sellers don’t lose on this one. Up around 27 points in last two weeks.
 
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BtwoG

GT Owner
Dec 8, 2013
910
Atlanta, GA
Shorted TSLA today...putting proceeds into NFGT fund. I figure the stock will be around zero when I need the money:)
 

DBK

The Favor Factory™
Staff member
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Jul 30, 2005
14,913
Metro Detroit
Shorted TSLA today...putting proceeds into NFGT fund. I figure the stock will be around zero when I need the money:)
Congrats.

I hope we can look back and laugh at how ridiculous all this was now. "Funding secured" at $420 to $195 a share. Endless lies about various unsustainable production rates that never hold up. From closing almost every store to "never mind" days apart. The $35k Model 3 that never really was. January 30th Musk said he believed the company would be profitable in all quarters going forward. Days ago he sent out a memo saying the company would be insolvent in 10 months without slashing and burning everywhere after doing a capital raise he claimed they wouldn't need.

I don't believe Musk is a stupid man. I believe he's both utterly brilliant and an unconscionable liar with no business running a public company, that has an exceptional talent for selling unachievable dreams to the easily suggestible. It takes no particular talent, education or insight to identify the various falsehoods that originate from the company, but organized religion makes people believe funny things.

I will spoil the surprise now - there will not be a fleet of a million Tesla robotaxis shuttling people around next year, making their owners an extra $30k a year. Don't share that widely though; it's proprietary inside info...
 

Ed Sims

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Apr 7, 2006
7,549
NorCal
...I will spoil the surprise now - there will not be a fleet of a million Tesla robotaxis shuttling people around next year, making their owners an extra $30k a year. Don't share that widely though; it's proprietary inside info...
My bubble is now burst!

Ed
 
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Beach-GT

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
May 8, 2006
883
Seminole Florida
I just ordered a Tesla Model 3 for the wife. It's basically a fast golf cart. So far the process has been pretty Mickey-Mouse. I hope it materializes without any hassles. I also ordered a tier 1 solar system to charge it and stick it to the local power company. Should entertain me this summer.
 

Special K

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Aug 23, 2016
1,356
Franklinton, LA
He should have put his focus on battery development and left the cars alone.
 

Cobrar

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Jun 24, 2006
3,942
Metro Detroit
IMO - What he needed when he entertained the venture from the outset was an exit strategy. There were opportunities to sell the company, realize considerable financial benefit, and move onto the next great thing.
 
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Ed Sims

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Apr 7, 2006
7,549
NorCal
IMO - What he needed when he entertained the venture from the outset was an exit strategy. There were opportunities to sell the company, realize considerable financial benefit, and move onto the next great thing.
The captain always goes down with the ship.

Ed
 
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MTV8

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Jul 24, 2010
916
Houston Texas
Congrats.

I hope we can look back and laugh at how ridiculous all this was now. "Funding secured" at $420 to $195 a share. Endless lies about various unsustainable production rates that never hold up. From closing almost every store to "never mind" days apart. The $35k Model 3 that never really was. January 30th Musk said he believed the company would be profitable in all quarters going forward. Days ago he sent out a memo saying the company would be insolvent in 10 months without slashing and burning everywhere after doing a capital raise he claimed they wouldn't need.

I don't believe Musk is a stupid man. I believe he's both utterly brilliant and an unconscionable liar with no business running a public company, that has an exceptional talent for selling unachievable dreams to the easily suggestible. It takes no particular talent, education or insight to identify the various falsehoods that originate from the company, but organized religion makes people believe funny things.

I will spoil the surprise now - there will not be a fleet of a million Tesla robotaxis shuttling people around next year, making their owners an extra $30k a year. Don't share that widely though; it's proprietary inside info...
Will you be ordering the rocket thruster option for your new Tesla Roadster?
 
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RickH

GT Owner
Mar 5, 2015
426
Florida
From a friend with a background in Chemistry.

The total environmental impact from exploration, mining of raw materials, clean up from production of precursor materials, energy and pollution caused by production of lithium carbonate, and disposal of millions of huge dead batteries is being avoided by the tree huggers.....and Tesla.

Wait 'till the $hit hits the fan.

Here is a fluffy article that glosses over the impact. Ever see a copper refining facility? Terrible.

http://www.lithiummine.com/lithium-mining-and-environmental-impact
 
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BIGFOOT

GT Owner
Jan 18, 2012
726
Northeast
Tesla came to my kids school years ago and my son asked what they did with the batteries and the rep couldn't really respond other than say,...."recycled...?"
Not very convincing.
 

Sinovac

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Jul 18, 2006
5,688
Largo, Florida
But it makes people feel good, so it must be ok.
 
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KennethClay

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Oct 15, 2012
672
New York
A friend who owns multiple car dealerships said he wouldn't even sell anybody he knows (and likes) a Prius. He said that when they get that first bill for a replacement battery, it's "eye watering"!

And then there's the question about what to do with the spent battery.
 

Awsum GT

GT Owner '05 & '18
Mark IV Lifetime
Sep 17, 2005
3,894
Central California
deleted
 
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Empty Pockets

ex-GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Oct 18, 2006
1,307
Washington State
Wait 'till the $hit hits the fan.
It will also hit the fan when all-electric car owners start getting hit with, say, $3 - $4 - $5,000 license tabs to make up for the gas taxes they aren't paying now.
 

twobjshelbys

GT Owner
Jul 26, 2010
5,355
Las Vegas, NV
For the most part all electric vehicles does is shift the emissions from the auto tail pipe to a coal or gas fired electric generator smokestack.

The other thing that will happen is that as the energy consumption moves from fossil fuels to electricity, the electricity grid will become overtaxed and require expansion. That means more power lines. Even local, and even your own home, will likely be under-supplied. Imagine what happens when 6 houses served by one transformer on your block all of a sudden start charging two or three cars at a time. The delivery grid and transformers will all need more capacity Electricity rates are going to skyrocket.


It will also hit the fan when all-electric car owners start getting hit with, say, $3 - $4 - $5,000 license tabs to make up for the gas taxes they aren't paying now.
Yes, and this is starting to get some traction in some places now... Trials balloons of mileage based fees have been floated in NV.

And the whole thing only works in metro areas. Rural areas not so much, and a family vacation to visit a national park is a stretch.