BlackICE
GT Owner
Final ratio is lower, lower gearing, greater torque allow less clutch slip and using lower rpms. I can move the car forward on level ground without touching the gas pedal.
Clutch setting?
- Thread starter funat50
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Final ratio is lower, lower gearing, greater torque allow less clutch slip and using lower rpms. I can move the car forward on level ground without touching the gas pedal.
If you change the ratio with the FINAL gear ratio, or with the diameter of the tire, the result is the same.
MAD IN NC
Proud Owner/ BOD blah bla
BlackICE
GT Owner
That is true, other than the stance of the car and the look in the wheel wells. The 3.9 gears are about 86% lower than the stock gearing so rear tires of about 25" diameter would be about the same. Are you running tires that small?
Not quite - the Michelins lower the final drive by about 93% - roughly half way between the OEM Goodyear or Hoosiers, and the Stillen gear ratio, with the advantage of a slightly better fuel economy. Unless you have your Hoosiers grooved, the Michelins also add somewhat better roadability in inclement weather (but not much), as they have some treads cut. A nice compromise, considering the cost of the Stillen gears and the cost of interchangeable tire sizes.
Edit - And, with Penske shocks, the ride height is adjustable . Here's the stance of the #2 car - - -
View attachment 28619
Edit 2- I just checked TireRack - The Pilot Sport cups are now available on sale for $339 apiece (Rear - 345/30ZR19
) and $332 (front -235/40ZR18)
View attachment 28620 View attachment 28621
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Wwabbit
GT Owner
And now we return you to the original thread.....
I wouldn't worry too much about it unless you actually notice slippage under load. I have a similar condition, high release point, and asked the same question here recently and got a multitude of answers, including other owners reporting clutch engagement points all over the place. I think whatever your car has is the way Ford built it and that's just the way it is unless you dive in there and monkey with it. It is a production car after all. And as you noted, the toughest thing on a clutch, other than some form of abuse, getting in and out of a tight trailer, especially with a step ramp.
I wouldn't worry too much about it unless you actually notice slippage under load. I have a similar condition, high release point, and asked the same question here recently and got a multitude of answers, including other owners reporting clutch engagement points all over the place. I think whatever your car has is the way Ford built it and that's just the way it is unless you dive in there and monkey with it. It is a production car after all. And as you noted, the toughest thing on a clutch, other than some form of abuse, getting in and out of a tight trailer, especially with a step ramp.
bonehead
GT Owner
Seeing as you've probably had the most experience with the widest range of cars, this is certainly a bit concerning. Ryan Pond did the PPI on my car and specifically said the clutch felt good. I bought the car from a single owner with only 3800 miles. While I don't know him at all, I gather the first owner was rather tame with the car, so unless he did a bunch of 3rd gear starts, I can't imagine the clutch being fried yet. I don't notice any slippage. And while I don't have hundreds of cars under my belt, as I mentioned, I did drive 2 others and the clutch was exactly the same. All this information combined, I would have to assume this is just the way it is with my car.
Which brings me back to my original question. Is a clutch stop device a viable option or do I just wait for muscle memory to kick in and I get used to the high engagement?
EDIT: And as for Ralphie's post regarding the MPSC's. Those would be my absolute first choice for tires if they only came in taller sizes for the rear. I don't plan on lowering the car, so cosmetically, the gap would look horrendous.
Sinovac
GT Owner
Ed, if you have not done so, you should bleed the system as BlackIce suggested to eliminate the line as the source of your problem. It won't cost you much to find out. You may already know this, but to test the clutch for slippage, floor the gas in 6th gear at 50-60 mph. A slipping clutch will be obvious in that the rpms will increase without corresponding forward momentum. There is an inspection hole in the bell housing through which you can take a look at the clutch as well. I would make sure everything else is in order before altering the pedal travel. My GT has many more miles than yours and the engagement is just like Shelby described.
Xcentric
GT Owner
Testing for a slipping clutch
[video=youtube_share;bM3So0U1BMQ]http://youtu.be/bM3So0U1BMQ[/video]
[video=youtube_share;bM3So0U1BMQ]http://youtu.be/bM3So0U1BMQ[/video]
Many people are going to have different definitions on what they call late release. I will admit I have come across a couple cars that had a late release, yet drive fine, and have been driving fine for years. I would normally trust Ryan's evaluation, so if he said it felt good, and the car drives fine with no slipping, then I would not focus on it too hard. But I still feel that its not the "norm" to have a late release.
Wwabbit
GT Owner
Mine was like that (very late release) when I bought it from you with 200 mi. I thought it was normal until someone else in the car questioned it. So either it is normal to vary car to car from Ford or someone wore mine out in 200 mi. , it can only be one or the other. I'm at 4000 mi now and it still works the same.
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Looks like a subject for a poll:biggrin
Mine also engages very late.. Has it's whole life. I thought this was the norm..
Shelby's commit on varying engagement is interesting, but he has also experienced a multitude of different cars with varying mod's.
I would think the difference between stock cars is the fact that this is (as mentioned) a production car and over a two year run, part production variance could have happen, while being within production specs. ( a change in vendor maybe).
I would bleed the clutch system(very small reservoir) every year or two to ensure fresh fluid and no air. Didn't do mine for the first 4 years, and the fluid had gotten very dark and level was very near the bottom...Air was in the system.
The slip test is a good first test to see where your clutch is at. An abuse clutch would probably have a burnt smell..Which sound's like it didn't when you had your PPI.
The final test would be disassembly to check the friction disk(s) thickness and inspect the pressure plate for hot spots.
I would think that the stock clutch would last quite a while with normal use.
Not familiar with the mod you mentioned, but don't know of anyone that uses one with a GT.
With the torque these engines develop, even with a tall(high) first gear, very little throttle is required to get rolling..
Mine also engages very late.. Has it's whole life. I thought this was the norm..
Shelby's commit on varying engagement is interesting, but he has also experienced a multitude of different cars with varying mod's.
I would think the difference between stock cars is the fact that this is (as mentioned) a production car and over a two year run, part production variance could have happen, while being within production specs. ( a change in vendor maybe).
I would bleed the clutch system(very small reservoir) every year or two to ensure fresh fluid and no air. Didn't do mine for the first 4 years, and the fluid had gotten very dark and level was very near the bottom...Air was in the system.
The slip test is a good first test to see where your clutch is at. An abuse clutch would probably have a burnt smell..Which sound's like it didn't when you had your PPI.
The final test would be disassembly to check the friction disk(s) thickness and inspect the pressure plate for hot spots.
I would think that the stock clutch would last quite a while with normal use.
Not familiar with the mod you mentioned, but don't know of anyone that uses one with a GT.
With the torque these engines develop, even with a tall(high) first gear, very little throttle is required to get rolling..
Wwabbit, I drove your car and did not notice it being a VERY late release, so as stated, there will be a variance in definitions here. Also, if you have 4k miles now, which I know many of them are track days, that tells you that your clutch is / was not worn out or it would already be gone.
I would agre with Shelby that we all have our own internal definition of what constitutes a high release. Ryan has driven quite a few different GT's even if it is only 50' or so to get them on or off the lift. Regardless, he's pretty familiar with clutch engagement and the reality that each GT seems to have its own characteristics. In your case bonehead, Ryan drove your car a few blocks and also pulled the pans as part of the PPI. One "tell" with the pans off is the resultant clutch dust and smell of a worn clutch. These were not present.
As others have stated, the OEM clutch fluid can get ugly - like snot balls or shark fin soup (both of wich have the same consistency, IMO). It is really straightforward to bleed but as the reservoir is soooooo small at the front of the car, we like to bleed with 3-people present. One in the car, one at the bleed screw and one insuring the reservoir level stay near full. We like to use Motul RBF 600 just as we do in the brake lines. I would suggest that at your next service interval, you include a clutch fluid flush/re-fill and put your mind at ease. Will it change your engagement point? My experience is no, but you can be assured that the fluid is good and that you have correct operation of the pedal.
As for a "clutch stop" device - although I'm not sure I know exactly what that it is in the context of a GT but I would be pretty sure that your clutch is like so many other GT clutches I would vote for the "get used to it" approach.
As others have stated, the OEM clutch fluid can get ugly - like snot balls or shark fin soup (both of wich have the same consistency, IMO). It is really straightforward to bleed but as the reservoir is soooooo small at the front of the car, we like to bleed with 3-people present. One in the car, one at the bleed screw and one insuring the reservoir level stay near full. We like to use Motul RBF 600 just as we do in the brake lines. I would suggest that at your next service interval, you include a clutch fluid flush/re-fill and put your mind at ease. Will it change your engagement point? My experience is no, but you can be assured that the fluid is good and that you have correct operation of the pedal.
As for a "clutch stop" device - although I'm not sure I know exactly what that it is in the context of a GT but I would be pretty sure that your clutch is like so many other GT clutches I would vote for the "get used to it" approach.
bonehead
GT Owner
Wwabbit
GT Owner
Sinovac
GT Owner
That video never ceases to amaze me. Haven't any of those guys been around a car before?
KMCBOSS
RED GT owner
A couple of years ago, my clutch would not fully release - with the clutch fully depressed - hit the start button and the car would move alittle. I looked in the clutch reservoir and saw a jelly like substance. I flushed the clutch system and haven't noticed the issue since. I suspect the clutch fluid absorbed water.
fjpikul
GT Owner
You don't get many take-offs in third gear before the clutch is smoked. Seriously doubt this is your problem. You need to flush and replace the fluid. Word of warning - do this when the engine is cold. Getting at the bleeding points is hard on a hot engine.