During my recent whipple install, I noticed oil in the old supercharger and lower intake around the intercooler. I did some research and found this to be normal on many of the supercharged ford modular engines. As a possible solution I was wondering if anyone heard of the Mann 200 oil separator. It looks like it would be a perfect match to the GT engine compartment as well as a good blow-by solution.
blow-by
- Thread starter paul b
- Start date
everetto
GT Owner
Same here. I had my stock blower off twice (once to put on the Kenne Bell snout and a 2nd time to put on my Whipple). Each time I remove a blower (does not matter which one), I find lots of oil inside it. The harder you drive your car the more oil you will find inside there. This is normal, even on NA engines, but FI engines can be even worse. The worst part is this oil migrates forward through the SC, down through the vanes on the intercooler, coating EVERYTHING in the intake tract. At least our intake design has a bit of an internal separator such that intake air after going down through the intercooler, has to go back up the outside of the intercooler to get to the head. The oil stays down in the bottom of a "chamber" that the intercooler resides in. There is an elbow at the lower-most point, and a rubber hose that goes up, and BACK INTO the side of the SC (an endless loop of oil flow). It is important to note that the oil enters this "loop" via the PCV valve.
I have been researching CATCH CANS for some time now, and there are many on the market - some are better than others. I have not happened to check out the Mann 200 yet, but will. I WILL put a catch can on my car - immediately. The heat/oil combo on the fins of the intercooler eventually make a sludgy build up, reducing the efficiency of the intercooler. This is a KNOWN phenomenon, and is common to most if not all modern autos that vent the PCV to the intake. It just is worse if you happen to have an intercooler residing in your intake tract...
I have been researching CATCH CANS for some time now, and there are many on the market - some are better than others. I have not happened to check out the Mann 200 yet, but will. I WILL put a catch can on my car - immediately. The heat/oil combo on the fins of the intercooler eventually make a sludgy build up, reducing the efficiency of the intercooler. This is a KNOWN phenomenon, and is common to most if not all modern autos that vent the PCV to the intake. It just is worse if you happen to have an intercooler residing in your intake tract...
BlackICE
GT Owner
All cars with PCV have dirty intakes. Combine the oily blowby gases with the EGR gases and you get a black oily mess over time. Our politicans want clean air at the expense of dirty engines.
Info on the Mann Provent
http://www.republicsales.com/products/PDF/Provent_Brochure.pdf
Info on the Mann Provent
http://www.republicsales.com/products/PDF/Provent_Brochure.pdf
andymlow
GT Owner
I ordered one from 928 Specialists, $125. Once I get it i'll start figuring out the install. On the mustang sites they talk about the problem being on the driver side valve cover breather. I guess I need to check lines going to T.B inlet for oil traces.
everetto
GT Owner
I too have a custom unit on the way. Once installed I will report here with details and pics. A couple of us may come up with a unique setup for our unique cars. More soon...
BlackICE
GT Owner
Anyone install one of these yet. I noticed a lot of oil in the intake as well and my car has very low miles on it! If seem easy enough, except for 3 things:
1. Where to mount it.
2. Where to plumb the return oil line. To a valve cover, or sump tank come to mind. But modifications would be needed.
3. One unit is spec at 470HP or 350 KW.
I wouldn't want to think about finding space for two of them.
1. Where to mount it.
2. Where to plumb the return oil line. To a valve cover, or sump tank come to mind. But modifications would be needed.
3. One unit is spec at 470HP or 350 KW.
I wouldn't want to think about finding space for two of them.
- Aug 25, 2006
- 4,436
Now certainly this would correct the crankcase vented oil from being drawn into the intake system however it is a "BAD" idea.
The first has to do with remaining emission compliant and the fact that the engine's are not to free air any by-products of the motor unless for example it passes through an item such a the cat. A gal with open filter style breathers on each valve cover would never pass the visual portion of the inspection process.
Now the biggie issue is as follows; FI (Forced Induction) motors in association with forged pistons can at times (in fact often times) have a greater blow-by/leak down percentage when compared to the N/A (normally aspirated) motor as the byproduct of the designed build and one of the reasons for the draw through aka vacuum design is to maintain a vacuum within the crankcase. This process helps seals to seal better such as at the crank, it also significantly reduces seam leaks, and an even greater benefit is having a vacuum on the underside of the rings "PROMOTES" much better cylinder sealing hence more power.
For years racer's have been using secondary vacuum pumps on their motors just for this reason however they have no concern with oil drain back as such simply use a catch can.
I hope that this helps
All the best
Shadowman
BlackICE
GT Owner
Shadowman, I am correct thinking that the PCV system works two ways. One under light loads, when the intake manifold is under vacuum, blow by is sucked into the intake manifold, but under high load, when the intake is pressurized, a check valve prevents intake boosted air from bleeding into the crankcase and the blow by is vented from the other hose into the front side of the throttle blades, side toward the MAF?
Besides the provent, I installed a check valve between the air intake and the driver side valve cover in the connecting tube.
BlackICE
GT Owner
Paul, can you describe you install, photos would help? Where and how did you connect the provent to? Where and how is it mounted? Is it working well?
I can't take photos but I installed near the rear crossmember where it bolts to the shock mounting area. I made a small cross shaped bracket that used the stock crossmember attaching bolts. This placed it in the general area of the necessary plumbing, from there it was just a matter of rigging up hose connections. It seems to work well, it collected a fair amount of muck. I installed the check valve on the other side because of a small amount of oil at the opening of the throttle body and intake tube
- Aug 25, 2006
- 4,436
I am sorry for the delayed response however I wanted to confirm what I understood to be true;
On the GT the driver side valve cover is the draw side (meaning the point that the circulation begins as air is then drawn through the crankcase and out the passenger side) as such there is no check valve and then the right side has the check valve and the electronic component which is simply a heater to keep the valve from freezing during the extreme of climates/areas.
The right side at the loss of vacuum will close (as you stated) not allowing pressure to be directed into the crankcase however the driver side will still have some crankcase scavenging because the air is drawn from prior to the TB.
I hope that this helps
Shadowman
I think what happens is under a full throttle blast the flow reverses enough to blow oil into the intake tube. If you make enough blasts you have a minor mess. The check valve is just an attempt to see if it can be eliminated easily. I'm glad to find out what those wires did for the PCV, now if I can find out what the MAP sensor does?
- Aug 25, 2006
- 4,436
I can only specualte at this moment however considering that the by-pass system is electro-mechanical I suspect that the MAP plays a part in this operation; FYI the by-pass valve does not close progressivly but rather slams such as the point of lack of vacuum and then add to this the fuel system system would be another system that could use the MAP however let me reiterate; what I share is based on speculation and to some degree an educated guess.
Takes care
Shadowman
BlackICE
GT Owner
Shadowman thanks for clarifying the information. I didn't know what the wires to the pcv valve did. I thought it might have been an electronic valve.
Paul B, if I understand your setup correctly, you have the Provent connected between the passenger's side valve cover and intake side of the supercharger, and you added a check valve between the driver's side valve cover and in front of the throttle blades. Questions where did you connect the oil drain to? Also under high load conditions when there isn't any vacuum, where does the blow-by gasses go too? If I understand correctly the both the check valve and PCV valve will be closed under those conditions. Then the Provent overpressure vent is the only place the gasses can go.
I also wonder what the 2 bar TMAP sensor is used for other than a temp sensor. It surely isn't used for the boost gauge, because the gauge is confused when a Mafia is installed.
Paul B, if I understand your setup correctly, you have the Provent connected between the passenger's side valve cover and intake side of the supercharger, and you added a check valve between the driver's side valve cover and in front of the throttle blades. Questions where did you connect the oil drain to? Also under high load conditions when there isn't any vacuum, where does the blow-by gasses go too? If I understand correctly the both the check valve and PCV valve will be closed under those conditions. Then the Provent overpressure vent is the only place the gasses can go.
I also wonder what the 2 bar TMAP sensor is used for other than a temp sensor. It surely isn't used for the boost gauge, because the gauge is confused when a Mafia is installed.
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Ideally, the drain tube which also has a check valve should connect to the oil pan, but for convenience I use a catch can in the area of the trans cooler. The final result I guess is during severe crankcase pressure the provent vents to the atmosphere, but at least its filtered.
- Aug 25, 2006
- 4,436
I am likely missing something as the crankcase MUST be abe to vent at all times; this is why in OEM trim the driver side has "NO" check valve and draws from behind/before the TB where as the passenger side is in front of/after the TB where vacuum is present during normal/moderate driving however in those times of boost it is closed so as NOT to send pressure into the crankcase.
If one is so compelled a oil separator could be plumbed and then drained back into the valve cover on the driver side rather easy but it would serve little or "NO" purpose because this is never any significant vacuum because it draws from before the TB "HOWEVER" the vacuum and boost cycles must me controlled for the passenger side or it would be ............................. ugly
Takes care
Shadowman
BlackICE
GT Owner
In paul's setup - under vacuum the engine vents normally but filtered through the Provent. Under high engine loads, the PCV valve is closed and his added check valve to the driver's side PCV hose prevents normal engine ventilation via the front of the throttle blades. The side can only be used to suck air into the crankcase. This will cause the crankcase pressure to build up until the pressure relief valve in the Provent vents blow-by into the engine compartment. This sound like the best way to connect only one Provent. If you used 2 of them then you wouldn't have to vent into the engine bay.