Bad News if you own a GTR


Well ... either we develop a box to edit the EDR or I guess we all need to buy the rest of the available GT's on the market in order to legally drive spiritedly without big brother as a passenger.

I'm in favor of an EMP generator so when they show up with warrant in hand .. :poof::poof::poof: ... what evidence? :biggrin

BTW... Bony thanks for being FIFE from time to time... it does keep the garbage down a bit ... even if I'm the one considered occasionally tossing trash. :bored I guess a "thanks" for picking up the dirty socks is in order from time to time. :rofl
 
Man, I cant believe the BASHING that the GTR is getting from you guys. Please give me a raise of hands as to how many of you have DRIVEN the GTR?
Now, I really want everyone to understand that I am not defending the GTR because I own one or the fact that I have sold a few. There is no need to convience someone wether they like the car or not. BUT, I must say that there are always 3 sides to EVERY story. I have seen one or two instances on the net of people that have had the trans problem. Why did this happen? Only Nissan OR the person driving knows. There are gonna be some people that will abuse the car. Then when something breaks, they are gonna act like a saint and say that they only drive the car to get milk at the grocery store. ANYTHING WILL BREAK ON ANY CAR IF YOU ABUSE IT. I have seen this too many times. Now, if there is a break in peroid specified on the car in the owners manual and the happy go lucky new owner is at the drag strip day one and breaks something, I can see nissan NOT covering an issue related to this "under warranty". I have had a little bit of seat time in my GTR. Thus far the car is very fun to drive and very fast. Transmission has not had one hick-up. If I remember correctly, I believe the FORD GT had the tranny leaking on several early cars and the Ford FIX for this was the speedy sleeve. Then we had the axle bolt issue that took ford WAY too long to recall. I remember several people NOT HAPPY about this, but it seems to have fixed the problem and all are happy. I say we let the facts evolve and see what comes out of this. As for the black box, bitch about The GTR having it all you want, but in another 2 or 3 years, EVERY car made will have it. Just one of those things that we are gonna have to figure a way around. But I cant say I dont blame the manufacters for doing it. Put yourself in their shoes. Just think how many warranty claims a year that THEY pay for that were because of abuse, etc, that they infact should NOT have paid for. Everybodys all for it until you are the one getting screwed.

Sorry for the rant guys, but there needs to be another view considered here. Do I like the Nissan BETTER than the GT?? NO, but they are 2 totally different cars.

:cheers
 
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Shelby,
I don't see what I or others are saying as "bashing". Just bringing up some concerns about the GT-R that not a few people have mentioned. The GT-R is new, so as you mention things will evolve. Based on what I have read, it is a fantastic, technologically advanced automobile. I have even posted on their forum and my response was received very favorably. I mentioned the transaxle problem of our GTs and how instrumental this forum and its administrators were in helping us solve it. I think this may help, because I predict that the DSG transmission used in the GT-R will be the weak link in this car over time (I hope I am wrong). Audi has had this transmission for years and appears still reluctant to use it for its higher horsepower cars.

See the link:
http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=25361&st=940&start=940

Same name, "Cyclenirvana".

Wikipedia lists some advantages and disadvantages of this system:
[edit] Advantages and disadvantages
Advantages
Extremely fast shift time of 8 milliseconds, when shifting to a gear ratio the transmission ECU is expecting;
Practically no power loss, due to the use of twin clutches instead of a torque converter;
Better fuel economy than conventional planetary geared automatic transmission (due to lack of "slip" found in a torque converter);
Disadvantages
Lengthy shift time when shifting to a gear ratio which the transmission ECU did not anticipate (around 400ms, depending on the situation);
Relatively expensive to manufacture;[citation needed]
Heavier than a comparable Getrag conventional manual transmission (75 kg vs. 47.5 kg);
Greater potential failure due to complexity;
Torque handling capability constraints limit after-market engine tuning modifications.

This is the most disturbing article I have read suggesting greater wear than previously anticipated (previously posted).
http://www.themotorreport.com.au/4464/the-flawless-gt-r-has-a-fault/
 
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This is just my opinion but I think, like with the ZR-1 threads, people enjoy poking a bit of fun at other cars. That is probably why there are car sites for every single exotic, tuner car, smart car etc, etc..... It is mostly just harmless fun.....for me anyway.

Next I do think if you build a high end performance auto that buyers should be able to use it without the thing breaking down so early. Not all engines are as bulletproof as the GT :thumbsup (speaking from the experience of modding and frying a Vette and an NSX engine). Shelby makes a great point about abuse, but there is a fine line between driving the car hard and abusing it. Abuse is tough to define because you should be able to produce the performance numbers that the manufacturer bandies about in the advertisements without voiding your warranty. And there are manufacturers who look for reasons to void the warranty.

That said, all of the above mentioned posts are why I will not buy a brand new hot off the presses car until I see what shakes out with unanticpated problems/recalls. I much prefer to get the car in year two when the problems of the initial year are worked out. Again, this is just my opinion.......
 
Shelby,
The early FGT's had a rear main leak which was repaired with the speedy sleave.
Many FGT's have a transmission weap issue and that is why the breather was developed.

As you know there are special secret codes that can be inputted from the drivers seat on MBZ's and other cars that will enhance performance. I even heard that some F Car owners change the programs on their cars. The factories are well aware of these changes and to the best of my knowledge never void warranties over these changes.

However, the system that Nissan is using to monitor their cars is truly Orwellian. Hopefully, they will rethink their position. They are getting horrible press.

Ford has been more than fair with the way they have handled all warranty issues and client claims made by FGT owners. I have been involved with several claims and am aware of adjustments that Ford made that I personally would have kicked to the curb.
One later turned out to be out right fraud.
 
I think skyrex has some valid points. And yes, you are gonna see alot of opinions on here that vary, but I think the car is alot of "BANG FOR THE BUCK". If my transmission goes, maybe I will change my mind. Who knows, but non-the-less, I for one like the car. Time will tell! :thumbsup
 
B O N Y said:
Shelby,
The early FGT's had a rear main leak which was repaired with the speedy sleave.
Many FGT's have a transmission weap issue and that is why the breather was developed.

As you know there are special secret codes that can be inputted from the drivers seat on MBZ's and other cars that will enhance performance. I even heard that some F Car owners change the programs on their cars. The factories are well aware of these changes and to the best of my knowledge never void warranties over these changes.

However, the system that Nissan is using to monitor their cars is truly Orwellian. Hopefully, they will rethink their position. They are getting horrible press.

Ford has been more than fair with the way they have handled all warranty issues and client claims made by FGT owners. I have been involved with several claims and am aware of adjustments that Ford made that I personally would have kicked to the curb.
One later turned out to be out right fraud.
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I agree with you 110% on fords warranty issue. They have been MORE great to us!
 
I’ve spent a lot of time in Tokyo trying to work with Japanese companies. In my view Japanese companies have a culturally embedded difficulty in admitting mistakes (as do German companies like Audi with the Audi 100 in the 1980’s). Where there’s smoke there’s fire. On this GT-R tranny issue I smell smoke. I think we’ll see a big fire.

Rob
 
My worst nightmare - Bony Fife the prosecuting attorney and Ralphie the judge. I won't be able to sleep tonight. Just got worse, StormCat could be my court appointed defense attorney.
 
As per SKYREX " you should be able to produce the performance numbers that the manufacturer bandies about in the advertisements without voiding your warranty. And there are manufacturers who look for reasons to void the warranty. "

Agreed 110%. Regardles of use/abuse, blackboxes, whatever....YOU SHOULD be able to reproduce advertised numbers without voiding the warranty or damaging the car.
 
fjpikul said:
My worst nightmare - Bony Fife the prosecuting attorney and Ralphie the judge. I won't be able to sleep tonight. Just got worse, StormCat could be my court appointed defense attorney.
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No its worse EP is your appointed defender and is locked in his garage afraid to put miles on his car! So you're on your own. Shall I send you a case of Matlock DVD's so you can prepare for your defense? :lol

Stormcat recused himself due to a conflict of interest.... he's suing you for harrasment over bottle holders citing damages due to your threats to sell them.

Have a great nights sleep!!! :rofl


RE the Nissan: when they make a manual box .... I might be interested .... and thats a thin might.
 
Shelby,

Putting aside the GTR transmission and Black box issue, the car is
UGLY, OVER PRICED & OVER RATED.
I personally have ZERO interest in the car. If I won one in a raffle, I would sell it without even being slightly curious about its driveability - but I feel the same way about most modern BMWs. Sorry, just my personal opinion.

I have manufactured, sold and have serviced high tech products all my life. You can not betray your customers pure and simple. Nissan betrayed their customers and they will pay a terrible price.
 
HHGT said:
Shelby,

Putting aside the GTR transmission and Black box issue, the car is
UGLY, OVER PRICED & OVER RATED.
I personally have ZERO interest in the car. If I won one in a raffle, I would sell it without even being slightly curious about its driveability - but I feel the same way about most modern BMWs. Sorry, just my personal opinion.

I have manufactured, sold and have serviced high tech products all my life. You can not betray your customers pure and simple. Nissan betrayed their customers and they will pay a terrible price.
Click to expand...


'Sure wish you didn't nuance so much, Sam. Feel free to say whatcha REALLY think! :thumbsup
 
fjpikul said:
My worst nightmare - Bony Fife the prosecuting attorney and Ralphie the judge. I won't be able to sleep tonight. Just got worse, StormCat could be my court appointed defense attorney.
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Thanks Doc - I appreciate the compliment :eek :thumbsdow

I guess my real instincts ask: Why did Nissan allow the car to be put into a mode which would:

(1) Violate the Warranty, and (2) ruin the drivetrain parts.

They could have easily not allowed the "launch" mode to be activated, thus protecting the car's drivetrain (and to hell with the snow and sand :bs - call for a tow truck). In fact, they never should have installed the "launch" mode - except on cars that were going to be raced - make it an option.

Personally, I believe the transaxle is inferior, but they wanted the performance publicity - which is now backfiring on them. :thumbsdow:thumbsdow But again, what I believe is unimportant.

Shelby - I really don't care about the abuse, be it there or not. I'm more concerned with the infringement upon the personal property rights of individuals by the technical developments being employed.
 
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fjpikul said:
...Just got worse, StormCat could be my court appointed defense attorney.
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At least you're used to delaying actions - hee hee!

:lol :lol :lol
 
RALPHIE said:
Personally, I believe the transaxle is inferior, but they wanted the performance publicity - which is now backfiring on them.
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly.
 
RALPHIE said:
Thanks Doc - I appreciate the compliment :eek :thumbsdow

I guess my real instincts ask: Why did Nissan allow the car to be put into a mode which would:

(1) Violate the Warranty, and (2) ruin the drivetrain parts.

They could have easily not allowed the "launch" mode to be activated, thus protecting the car's drivetrain (and to hell with the snow and sand :bs - call for a tow truck). In fact, they never should have installed the "launch" mode - except on cars that were going to be raced - make it an option.

Personally, I believe the transaxle is inferior, but they wanted the performance publicity - which is now backfiring on them. :thumbsdow:thumbsdow But again, what I believe is unimportant.

Shelby - I really don't care about the abuse, be it there or not. I'm more concerned with the infringement upon the personal property rights of individuals by the technical developments being employed.
Click to expand...

I agree 100% that they should never have programmed the cars with launch control if the transmission was too weak to stand up to the task. It was a really stupid move on their part and would have been an easy programming fix IMHO.
 
dbtgt said:
I agree 100% that they should never have programmed the cars with launch control if the transmission was too weak to stand up to the task. It was a really stupid move on their part and would have been an easy programming fix IMHO.
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I agree with this but what NEEDS to be confirmed is that the transmission will not hold up. One or even two cases of this is not PROOF that it wont. I am not defending it, just waiting for more proof that it wont. Time will tell :confused
 
shelbyelite said:
I agree with this but what NEEDS to be confirmed is that the transmission will not hold up. One or even two cases of this is not PROOF that it wont. I am not defending it, just waiting for more proof that it wont. Time will tell :confused
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I agree - more proof is needed - but Nissan's position that failures occurring when the VDC is turned off are not going to be covered under warranty seems very telling to me if not at least suspicious!
 
I agree that they should have disabled the launch control.

Folks that want to activate it will find a way.

Between the charges from Porsche about the Ring times and this issue they have a PR nightmare to deal with.
 
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