What's the second act?

[bitzman]

A former Saleen employee told me they are already laying people off as they wind down Ford GT production.

I guess that dashes hopes that the Cobra Concept roadster or Cobra Concept GR-1 coupe will be following the Ford GT down the assembly line.

The Shelby Mustang can be built in a regular Ford plant as it only has a few minor body differances.

Anybody know why the Cobra Concepts weren't greenlighted? Is it because Ford is so broke? Or is it that Ford doesn't see a big enough volume market? Or that the engine isn't ready? Like to know why our Christmas present is being replaced by a lump of coal (besides that we were bad again...)

 

[FORDGT001]

Cars like the GT and the Viper are not money makers for the factories they are Image Makers. Their promotional items to get the public interested in their product. I would be surprised if Ford cracked a profit on the GT after everyone is sold even at $166 MSRP. So considering the financial problems Ford has I wouldn't count on anything great for a while. Its very expensive to R&D these cars for production and the production is limited. Chevrolet can do it with the Z06 because they make 7,000 Z06's a year and they build it right alongside the regular Vette so its a money maker for Chevy. Personally I don't think Ford should build anymore limited quantity sports cars unless they can flat "Smoke" the Z06. I think its embarrassing that the GT just barely outperforms a car that costs $100K less.

 

[Gene Cassone]

I agree the GT is an "image car" for Ford. However I stronly disagree to say it is an embrassing when compared to the Zo6 price and similiar performance. This is like comparing a Rolex to a timex' They both keep perfect time but are they the same!? The Zo6 looks like any other recent Coevette: bland styling with no imagination!! I will take aluminum over fibreglass anyday!! Midengine versus front engine. Limited nos versur how many Corvettes?? You have to own and drive a GT to really appreciate it. Even sitting in winter storage it is a rush just looking at it. What more to say!!

 

[dbk]

I think the Shelby products weren't greenlighted for various reasons. The roadster simply didn't get the reaction they were expecting. Far less emotional appeal than the GT. The GR-1 did get that reaction, but after some of the early debacles in the GT production process, I think it became a less and less likely proposition. Also, where do they price it? As an N/A V-10 front-engined car, is it grand tourer 575m or a Viper on roids? Too many questions with not enough answers at a time when everything non-core is a very dicey prospect.

My honest opinion? When Phil Martens left for Plastech, that was a major, major loss for Ford. As head of product creation, and a brilliant mind by all accounts, a guy with a bit of gasoline in his veins like him could have made a case for a post-GT halo car. With him gone, I think it dwindled from unlikely to virtually impossible.

I'd love to see them build the GR-1. LOVE. But I also think they may have the chance to reasses in 2-3 years and restart production on the GT. They need to find a way to amortize the costs of engineering a supercar in no time flat.

 

[bitzman]

Chrysler could come out with the Firepower

Chrysler could come out with theFirepower,a rebodied Viper and even with a V8 (but a Hemi V8) occupy that market where the GR-1 Cobra coupe should have been.Chrysler needs to get away from that V-10 that costs too much to make,so without the GR-1 with a V-10 they won't have to worry about that car and as you say they make too many Corvettes for even the Z06 to have much exclusivity ("they are like bellybuttons, everybody has one"). Too bad Martens left, because he saw where the Cobra coupe could fit in; maybe no one left has the "vision" (6th sense) you need to have to see where a car can fit in. At Chrysler even the Firepower is threatened by the failure of the Crossfire; a nice car but lackluster sales; discouraging the Corporation from trying to build niche vehicles. I will miss the Cobra GR-1 not being on the market the same time as the Firepower because it would have been two 170 mph American made coupes, just like I regret Chevy never built the mid engined Corvette which if they had could have given the Ford GT a worthy competitor!

 

[B O N Y]

How big is the market for $160,000 cars? I have been told Ferrari N.A. ships into North America between 30 and 60 cars per month. Add in the other cars over $100k and you have maybe 100 cars a month. I think a lot of loyal Ford guys are buying GT's who would never spring for another super car.


My only regret is that Ford does not seem inclined to start an owner's club and support the car like Chrysler does for the Viper brand.

 

[barondw]

My only regret is that Ford does not seem inclined to start an owner's club and support the car like Chrysler does for the Viper brand.

When you are almost bankrupt supporting 2,000 or so cars with a club, etc. does not make much financial sense or operational sense. It would also lead to serious questions about the managerial objectives and skills of the current management team.

 

[B O N Y]

Dave, no doubt your logic is hard to argue with. However, Daimler Chrysler was in worse financial shape that Ford when they formed the Viper Owner's Group. Have you seen how loyal the Viper owners are to their brand? Ford needs great p.r. as much as any firm in their condition.

 

[ENZO BTR]

Two quick points:

First, as most of you already know, the Corvette Z06 is NOT a GT competitor. I will actually give it an advantage in terms of pure motor, as I love the normally aspirated feel (and sound) of that 7.0-liter V8. It's also got more toys (dual-zone climate control, cruise control, stability control, etc.) than the GT, though, unlike the engine, those items mean almost nothing to me in a supercar (I'm sure they mean something to some buyers of these types of cars, just not me).

After that, it's all GT. Looks-design-material quality-heritage-rarity-and, yes, even performance. While on a spreadsheet the performance numbers look close, drive them back-to-back and you'll learn first hand what most automotive experts know quite well -- numbers are numbers, and they simply can't tell whole the story. The GT is barely beating the Z06 in instrumented testing, but it's destroying it from behind the wheel.

I will never begrudge anyone for buying a Z06, because the performance you get for the dollar is astounding. That said, I have NO interest in owning one. The design and build quality are typical GM (meaning little inspiration on the former and a near total lack of execution on the latter). And please don't get me started about the shifter... Some people yell about the GT's lack of cargo space or the bizarre doors that require careful entry/egress moves. Well, I use the cargo area only when I'm carrying more than my personal items, and even the doors are only used when I get into or out of the car. But I use the shifter every 3 to 30 seconds, on average, and to have that wrong in a supercar is simply unacceptable. It's like saying "Yeah, I love that airplane. I just wish it could fly."

Second, regarding the dim prospects for a GT follow-up, I agree that Ford probably can't afford it, and they've lost so much of their core brain trust on the product side there's hardly anyone left to see a GT-like follow-up through. But I can vouch for both the capabilities and the passion of Hau Tai-Tang. Remember, this guy was behind the 2005 Mustang redesign, which I think is easily the best Mustang since 1970. Now he runs SVT, so you can bet the GT500 is going to fully exploit "his" car's capabilities. Between what I absolutely know and what I think I know, I'm confident the GT500 will be the cat's meow and then some. I know it's not exactly a GR-1, but if it's got the level of performance, design and interior quality (plus a shifter that works, unlike certain "supercars") I think it will do to the Corvette Z06 -- in reality -- what many people THINK the Z06 does to the Ford GT -- offer almost the same level of performance for far less money. But unlike the Z06, it will look and feel good, inside and out, while doing it.

Okay, so I guess the two points weren't that "quick."

 

[Kirby Vieira]

second act

If you have not driven a C6 or C6Z06, you need to reserve judgement until you drive it. The C6 is not a new name for last years C5, rather it is a considerably refined and improved car, and if it has been a few years since you've driven a Corvette, you may find the experience a very pleasant surprise.

 

[Fast Freddy]

personally, i like the looks of the GR-1 better than the GT. especialy if it costs less $$$. this is part of the reason why i am holding out on buying a GT. i want the GR-1. my preference is for the N/A V-10 in the GR-1 but i would settle for the blown V-8. build the GR-1 and i will buy it b4 i would buy a GT. in my opinion that says alot. the GT will be history as far as a repeat is concerned. it will not pass the new federally mandated crash standards of 2007 and the GR-1 will, so..........

 

[B O N Y]

Kirby, you are correct the C6 and the Z06 are amazing, that is why I am on the order list for a Z06 which will be my daily driver. However, the GT is in another step up. I think Enzo has clearly stated above a great explanation that hits on all cylinders.

 

[dbk]

Great points Enzo.

The GT500 is definitely going to be killer for the dollar. It kills me how some of the SVT fanboys over at svtperformance.com begrudge the GT500 for being "unimpressive". Please, between what they actually do know, and what I know (which I'm betting is the same thing you know and think you know :lol ) the car will make a mockery of the 03/04 Cobra in every MEANINGFUL respect, even carrying those extra pounds. Kate Moss she ain't, but neither was the old car, with considerably less power.

Having had more than a few Mustangs in my day, you're every bit correct that what HTT managed to do on the new car with a stick axle is a revelation. The driving dynamics and interactions are stunning for a car that puts you behind a 305hp V8 for about 23k.

As for the GR-1 Freddy, I think that car with a V10 at around 100k is a winner. But as has been mentioned, you need to stop losing $1 billion per quarter in N.A before you can start tossing around GT successors. I'll agree on it's beauty (nailed in one paper-napkin sketch), but I still prefer the GT.

 

[abolfaz]

The GT is barely beating the Z06 in instrumented testing, but it's destroying it from behind the wheel.

Amen!

 

[FlorIdaho Chris]

Good one VPC!

 

[fordification]

I stole this from another site

um, but it isn't.

 

[Fast Freddy]

if sex sells.......then i am buyin

 

[Kirby Vieira]

Personally, although I would have and still would purchase a GR-1 ,I don't think it's a good follow-up or even a needed follow-up to the GT. The GT has done more than what Ford could have expected as an image builder, and with 4,000 sales there will be frequent reminders to the gereral public for many years to come. Years from now, I believe we will still be asked by the admiring public "what kind of car is that?" and many of these people will think it is a brand new '07, '08, '09 etc. Ford did it with the GT and is probably well advised to sit back, get their core business on track, and then come out with another image builder (probably totally different and more meaningful than the GR-1) several years from now.

 

[Neilda]

Apart from all of that information - all the model numbers, the performances etc. The GT is also a recreation of the Le Mans winning GT40 - that fact, in combination with the performance (in that order) makes the GT unique.

There just won't be another one and everything else will be measured against it - as the F40, XJ220 and McClaren F1 are the benchmark, as will be the GT.

It's an iconic car. Depends if that means something to a potential buyer.

 

[Pipelion]

Many of you may know much more than I, but I can't see how Ford lost money on the GT. Say $135,000.00 gross times 4000 units is $540 million dollars.

Porsche is calling thier Carrera GT the most successful supercar ever. Selling 1228 units for $400,000.00 ea. Thats $419 millon.

Now Macintosh radios don't cost Ford $4000 ea. And heritage paint is still $50 per gallon. Thats a lot of profit.

The Carrera has a 20 layer hand laid carbon fiber body hand built in Italy. And the Carrera's enginnering has to exceed the Ford.

I absolutly love both cars, but how can Ford be losing money if Porsche is calling their GT a winner financially?

Allan