NFGT vs GT500


BtwoG

GT Owner
Dec 8, 2013
863
Atlanta, GA
Brooks compares his NFGT with a stock GT500 and a slightly modified GT500. Wont spoil the ending but I'm surprised about the difference.
 
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ChipBeck

GT Owner
Staff member
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Feb 13, 2006
5,549
Scottsdale, Arizona
Gentlemen,

This is what I'd expect. Even with it's greater power the 4200 lb GT500 needs to move 5.5 pounds per horsepower and the 3300 lb GT only 5 pounds per horsepower. The mid engine GT has more of it's weight over the rear drive wheels than the front engine GT500 giving the GT a better launch on most surfaces, and as speeds increase the GT has much better aero although that isn't a factor in the short contests shown here. At 1/6 the price the GT500 is an amazing car and a great deal. All the best.

Chip
 

Ed Sims

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Apr 7, 2006
7,376
NorCal
I am happily surprised how quick the NGT is on these videos & when I drive mine.

Ed
 

TORQJNKY

GT Owner
Apr 18, 2013
24
Chesapeake VA
Pulley, mid-pipe, injectors and tune on E85 and the 2020 GT500 is making over 900whp. Evolution Performance just went 9's in one yesterday in the second day of ownership. This was on a MT ET Street SS.
 

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steved57

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Mar 29, 2008
1,706
kilgore tx
Great video - I was pleasantly surprised
 

Iconic GT

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Dec 30, 2017
526
Texas
Pulley, mid-pipe, injectors and tune on E85 and the 2020 GT500 is making over 900whp. Evolution Performance just went 9's in one yesterday in the second day of ownership. This was on a MT ET Street SS.
We haven't seen it all yet..... someone will drop a 4.5 on there soon. Great things awesome to see this.... my time is coming soon.... tic toc!
 
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ChipBeck

GT Owner
Staff member
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Feb 13, 2006
5,549
Scottsdale, Arizona
Pulley, mid-pipe, injectors and tune on E85 and the 2020 GT500 is making over 900whp. Evolution Performance just went 9's in one yesterday in the second day of ownership. This was on a MT ET Street SS.
Gentlemen,

I don't know about all 50 states but in many including Arizona (and you can trust what I say here as I'm an E-85 dealer) it is no longer possible to buy real E-85 or to even know what % of ethanol is blended into the fuel coming out of a gas pump labeled E-85. Here in Arizona it now ranges from a high of 74% ethanol to a low of 51% ethanol depending upon the time of year. So the octane rating is all over the place with this fuel. Hot rodders who use to buy E-85 at my store have had detonation problems with the new lower concentrations which lower octane. If a car is tuned to use the 120 octane of 85% ethanol and it doesn't have knock sensors (like the '05-'06 GT's) it will not like the E-51 that they get part of the year. But the labeling on the pumps hasn't changed per state regulation so drivers don't know what the hell they are getting. It isn't possible or legal to sell true E-85 in Arizona any more. It's hard to develop an optimum tune when the fuel you buy has constantly changing octane. Crazy. But then again, when I see how corrosive E-85 is to my equipment I wouldn't want to use it in my cars. Cheers.

Chip
 

TORQJNKY

GT Owner
Apr 18, 2013
24
Chesapeake VA
It's hard to develop an optimum tune when the fuel you buy has constantly changing octane. Crazy. But then again, when I see how corrosive E-85 is to my equipment I wouldn't want to use it in my cars. Cheers.

Chip
I ran pump E85 exclusively in my 1200whp Shelby GT500 for many years with zero issues. I used to test it at the pump prior to filling each and every time. In my area, pump E85 in the winter ranges from E70 to E85. In the summer, E80-E90. I agree that E85 and "rubber" fuel system components do not get along, but with the proper fuel system, i.e. stainless, ptfe, poly orings, E85 is a great option.
 
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ChipBeck

GT Owner
Staff member
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Feb 13, 2006
5,549
Scottsdale, Arizona
I ran pump E85 exclusively in my 1200whp Shelby GT500 for many years with zero issues. I used to test it at the pump prior to filling each and every time. In my area, pump E85 in the winter ranges from E70 to E85. In the summer, E80-E90. I agree that E85 and "rubber" fuel system components do not get along, but with the proper fuel system, i.e. stainless, ptfe, poly orings, E85 is a great option.
How would somebody test E-85 at the pump to determine the % of ethanol mixed with gas? And E80-E90? I'm certainly not aware of everything in every state but I read a ton about the gas & oil business as a Chevron Dealer and I've never heard of any refinery blending a concentration higher than E-85 as that is the highest concentration US autos are certified to run. Was this at a regular automobile filling station? I have no problems using E-85 in cars built to use it as every component in their fuel system is built with stainless steel and other components not affected by E-85. But I'm leery of running it in cars not originally designed for it as some of their components may not be immune to it. I know several of our members have used it with great success. When I first started selling E-85 it quickly destroyed one of my standard station gas pumps. The E-85 certified pumps are all stainless and cost substantially more than my other pumps. Even the pump nozzles have to be different. As a dealer one advantage of selling E-85 is that you never have to remove water from the bottom of your tank as you do in a gasoline tank. Water mixes with E-85 and gets pumped out with the fuel. All the best.

Chip
 
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twobjshelbys

GT Owner
Jul 26, 2010
5,201
Las Vegas, NV
As a dealer one advantage of selling E-85 is that you never have to remove water from the bottom of your tank as you do in a gasoline tank. Water mixes with E-85 and gets pumped out with the fuel. All the best.

Chip
Chip, do you have the E10 mix in the Phoenix area? Does a 10% concentration absorb any water? Colorado used to have it seasonally, but now it's year round. Vegas has it all the time too.
 

DakotaGT

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Dec 9, 2012
1,329
Sioux Falls, South Dakota
How would somebody test E-85 at the pump to determine the % of ethanol mixed with gas? And E80-E90?

Chip



E85-tuned folks typically use these types of inexpensive test kits to make sure the ethanol content is adequate for the tune they are running.
 

ChipBeck

GT Owner
Staff member
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Feb 13, 2006
5,549
Scottsdale, Arizona
Chip, do you have the E10 mix in the Phoenix area? Does a 10% concentration absorb any water? Colorado used to have it seasonally, but now it's year round. Vegas has it all the time too.
10% ethanol is mandatory in Arizona gasoline but that low concentration does not absorb water. Water sits on the bottom of the tank below the fuel pickup tube. The water level is monitored by in tank sensors and if it gets above an inch or two it can be pumped out. I don’t know how high the % of ethanol needs to be before water will blend with the fuel. But I do know that at concentrations of 51% and above water no longer sits on the bottom of the tank, it blends with the fuel so the in tank water sensors don’t work. I don’t know the effect of this but I’m not aware of any engine damage from water in E-85. Cheers.

Chip
 

SBR

GT Owner
Aug 23, 2009
204
I am shocked to hear that there is that much variation in the quality of the fuel. They should label it as E?
 

twobjshelbys

GT Owner
Jul 26, 2010
5,201
Las Vegas, NV
10% ethanol is mandatory in Arizona gasoline but that low concentration does not absorb water. Water sits on the bottom of the tank below the fuel pickup tube. The water level is monitored by in tank sensors and if it gets above an inch or two it can be pumped out. I don’t know how high the % of ethanol needs to be before water will blend with the fuel. But I do know that at concentrations of 51% and above water no longer sits on the bottom of the tank, it blends with the fuel so the in tank water sensors don’t work. I don’t know the effect of this but I’m not aware of any engine damage from water in E-85. Cheers.

Chip
One high school chemistry experiment is combining water and alcohol and yielding less volume than they were separately. So you they do combine but I don't know what proportions are required for the mix to be total.

A year or two ago there was going to be a change from E10 to E15. Whatever became of that?
 

twobjshelbys

GT Owner
Jul 26, 2010
5,201
Las Vegas, NV
I am shocked to hear that there is that much variation in the quality of the fuel. They should label it as E?
"I am shocked- shocked- to find that gambling is going on in here! "

I've been told that the E10 mix can vary from almost nothing to 10, so I'm not surprised to see some variation on E85, but am surprised it is that much. I suppose if you can conjure up a "tune" and sensor system that can manage that variation that going down to 0 is not too much more work, thus "flex fuel" that works with straight (or E10) all the way to E85.
 

ChipBeck

GT Owner
Staff member
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Feb 13, 2006
5,549
Scottsdale, Arizona
A year or two ago there was going to be a change from E10 to E15. Whatever became of that?
Many motor vehicle manufacturers and makers of power equipment claimed that concentrations above 10% would damage their engines and fuel systems. Even the E-10 sold today plugs small motorcycle carburetor jets after sitting for just 30 days. I'm so sick of rebuilding carbs that I won't buy anything that's not fuel injected if I can help it.

Chip
 
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twobjshelbys

GT Owner
Jul 26, 2010
5,201
Las Vegas, NV
Many motor vehicle manufacturers and makers of power equipment claimed that concentrations above 10% would damage their engines and fuel systems. Even the E-10 sold today plugs small motorcycle carburetor jets after sitting for just 30 days. I'm so sick of rebuilding carbs that I won't buy anything that's not fuel injected if I can help it.

Chip
I know exactly what you mean. My neighbor has a couple of small generators for his motor home. It had sat for a while (not a whole year, but in the heat over part of the summer). One wouldn't start and the one that did ran rough. I suspected the carb was clogged. So we drained the gas tank, got some carb cleaner and just put it in the gas tank, opened the bowl drain to make sure it got in there and just let it sit overnight. Filled the tank with gas and gave it a go. It started and ran really rough for about 5 or 10 minutes then something unclogged and it ran great.
 

TORQJNKY

GT Owner
Apr 18, 2013
24
Chesapeake VA

E85-tuned folks typically use these types of inexpensive test kits to make sure the ethanol content is adequate for the tune they are running.
Yes, that is exactly what I used. I kept a bottle of water in my car just for that.