N00bie here with questions...


B O N Y

MODERATOR & FGT OWNER
Mark IV Lifetime
Sep 5, 2005
12,110
Fresno, Ca.
SoCal Rebell,

Both the Viper and FGT are handbuilt as you stated. But your problems will not be similar unless the Viper you are refrerring to is a 1992-1994 which had a host of serious developmental problems like the FGT is having now and for that matter all new clean sheet cars seem to have upon their creation. The early Vipers had tons of problems, probably much more so than the FGT in fact, but the difference is Dodge elected to continue to build , develop and sort out the issues by building 500 to 1000 Vipers per year and making evolutionary improvements each model year.

Dodge also listened very closely to it's Viper owners by sponsoring semi annual Viper owner invitational events and fully supporting the Viper days and Viper Racing League program created by hard working Skip Thomas. As you know Dodge didn't get around to addressing the woefully inadequate rear brakes on the Viper until the third generation of Vipers in 2003. And as I am sure you are aware even after 11 years of building Vipers by hand Dodge had some assembly line engine related quality control problems with their third generation of Vipers in 2003,2004.

Notwithstanding the numerous Viper related quality control issues Dodge has experienced over the years. I was still able in 1998 to drive a Viper GTS coupe off the showroom floor and drive to a Viper days event in CA in 100 degree heat. Flog my brand new Viper around a track for two days in the timed non racing events. Wear out a set of 4 brand new tires and brake pads and then drive the car home on bald tires and worn out brake pads in 100 degree heat and then drive it to work the next day all without a hint of a problem. I was able to drive this Viper to many such events and beat the ever living crap out of the car and it always got me safely home each time. I did the same thing when the 99 ACR came out and again beat the living snot out of the car all without the use of a trailer and all without any problems other than normal wear and tear. Each Dodge dealer in town had a specially trained Viper tech always available for help in getting the bone stock Viper ready for it's next track day event.

As you know Dodge then created the Viper Comp. Coupe to support the Viper days program and allow Viper owners for 125K to buy a factory built race car certified for Viper Days and the VRL as well as the SCCA World Challenge Series.

In other words Dodge decided to build the Viper and make a long standing commitment to the Viper and it's owners with factory support and dealer support in the form of requiring dealers who sell Vipers to have factory trained Viper techs at each dealership.

Ford showed creative genius by building the FGT and basing it on their legendary Le Mans winning Ferrari ass kicking GT of the 60s. Ford must be given an enormous amount of credit IMHO for building the FGT and staying so true to it's heritage. I truly think the car is iconic a classic in it's time in many respects.

That being said it was rushed into production to meet the 100 year Ford anniversary deadline. It is a brand new clean sheet of paper car in a sense hastily assembled and rushed to the marketplace to meet demand at a volume of 2000 units per year. Generally speaking handbuilt and 2000 units per year are not often found in the same sentence? Ford didn't have a lot of time to sort the car out. Ford is not continuing to sort the car out since they have elected to cease production. Ford has not required dealers who sell the car to have special factory trianed FGT techs on hand to service these cars.

Had Ford made a comitment to build the FGT in limited volume for a long period of time and improve the car each year as it evolved and perhaps supported a FGT only racing series the car would be simply be one of the worlds finest cars.

I recommend a FGT purchase to my friends who want a rare car with iconic looks which is undeniably a modern classic who want such a distinctive car as opposed to the vanilla styling found on a Vette or Viper. It however is not reliable enough or sorted out enough to be a weekend track car for a serious weekend track guy such as yourself IMHO. It's a weekend car enthusiasts vehicle and a car collectors type car to drive on weekends.

It is a very quick car but doesn't IMHO generate anywhere near it's claimed 550 HP in stock configuration. I know for a fact the magazine cars were tuned and boosted. After having driven them all the FGT is no faster than a new 505 HP Vette or a 510 HP Viper but costs twice as much. What you are getting is looks more than anything else. The FGT is beset by normal quality control problems found on most new clean sheet cars but clearly lacks factory support at this time. Ford responded to the 2005 FGT problems by having field techs visit some owners but have since largely phased this service out.


Jayzus Christo... do you have anything new to say??? Ok, your right Vipers are wonderful. I have decided add one to my toy box, thanks for pointing out all their strong points. However, your comments about specially tuned GT's for the press, and the the GT not producing the advertised horsepower force me to conclude that you are basically full of shit when it comes to the GT and a full fledge troll.:troll :slap :devil :troll :slap :devil :troll :slap :devil :troll :slap :devil
 

BlackICE

GT Owner
Nov 2, 2005
1,416
SF Bay Area in California
It is a very quick car but doesn't IMHO generate anywhere near it's claimed 550 HP in stock configuration. I know for a fact the magazine cars were tuned and boosted. After having driven them all the FGT is no faster than a new 505 HP Vette or a 510 HP Viper but costs twice as much. What you are getting is looks more than anything else. The FGT is beset by normal quality control problems found on most new clean sheet cars but clearly lacks factory support at this time.

CSX 2104

How do you know what HP the GT is putting out? Have you witnessed any dyno runs yourself? Many GT owners as well as magazine tests show the GT is putting out more then 550 SAE crank HP. As far as bang for the buck I would agree that a Viper or Z06 can be had for less and are slightly better or slightly worse than a GT's performance depending on what you are doing with the cars. As for bang for the buck, you can build even a cheaper specialized car for drag racing or road racing for much less than even a Z06. GT owners are not looking for the lowest cost car for the track. As far as problems for a new cars, the GT has some as any new car does, but less so than most rev 1.0 cars. Considering it was designed and produced in about 3 years the problems of the car are very few.

If you meet two women a butt ugly one that will go home with you for right away and a beautiful one will go home with your after a some drinks, dinner and a show, which one would you chose? They both will perform the same around the track, disregarding their appearance.

As know what I would do, how about you? I think I know what your choice would be.

BlackICE
 
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B O N Y

MODERATOR & FGT OWNER
Mark IV Lifetime
Sep 5, 2005
12,110
Fresno, Ca.
CSX 2104

If you meet two women and an butt ugly one that will go home with you for right away, or a beautiful one will go home with your after a some drinks, dinner and a show, which one would you chose? would be.

BlackICE

STOP, what does this have to do with the GT.:lol :lol
Answer is very simple, buy them both drinks, take them both to a motel.
Ok, did I answer that correctly or what??:willy :willy :banana :willy :willy
:party :party :party :party :party
 

BlackICE

GT Owner
Nov 2, 2005
1,416
SF Bay Area in California
STOP, what does this have to do with the GT.:lol :lol
Answer is very simple, buy them both drinks, take them both to a motel.
Ok, did I answer that correctly or what??:willy :willy :banana :willy :willy
:party :party :party :party :party

There isn't a right answer. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. Some like more, some like less, some like tall, some like short, some like redheads, some like blondes. Just like in cars some like Z06 some like GT, some like both.

BlackICE
 

B O N Y

MODERATOR & FGT OWNER
Mark IV Lifetime
Sep 5, 2005
12,110
Fresno, Ca.
There isn't a right answer. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. Some like more, some like less, some like tall, some like short, some like redheads, some like blondes. Just like in cars some like Z06 some like GT, some like both.

BlackICE

Ok, I am trying work with you here:lol Mention something I don't like, I need to find a baseline. :rofl
 

BlackICE

GT Owner
Nov 2, 2005
1,416
SF Bay Area in California
Ok, I am trying work with you here:lol Mention something I don't like, I need to find a baseline. :rofl
Bony, I don't think you would like any of these?

http://www.theautochannel.com/media/photos/mikro/mikro4.jpg

http://www.theautochannel.com/media/photos/mikro/mikro7.jpg

BlackICE
 

Spirit

Heritage GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
I'll Take Both

.............., some like redheads, .................. Just like in cars ............some like GT, some like both.

BlackICE

Yep,

I'll take one of each.:cheers :biggrin :thumbsup :banana :wink :bow

:party
 

B O N Y

MODERATOR & FGT OWNER
Mark IV Lifetime
Sep 5, 2005
12,110
Fresno, Ca.

Ok, I agree... not my favorites. Sort of remind me of some of the rides that my parents took me at PLAYLAND AT THE BEACH. Great place, afterwards we went swiming at Fleischhacker Pool. How that for useless San Francisco history?:wink
 

BlackICE

GT Owner
Nov 2, 2005
1,416
SF Bay Area in California
Ok, I agree... not my favorites. Sort of remind me of some of the rides that my parents took me at PLAYLAND AT THE BEACH. Great place, afterwards we went swiming at Fleischhacker Pool. How that for useless San Francisco history?:wink

Useless, I did the same things when I was a kid. Remember the fat lady? She is still laughing

Photo:
http://www.museemecanique.org/machine_sally.html
The laugh
http://www.museemecanique.org/index.html

I know the manager of this place, but haven't seen him for 25 years.

Bony did you grow up in SF? I was born and raised there and that is extremely rare due to demographics.

Bony, I forgot to mention, this museum has vintage porn movies! Pre-DVD, pre-tape, pre-film. A coin machine showning a motion picture clip that is like a flipbook.

BlackICE
 
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XR750

GT Owner
Oct 16, 2006
20
Viper Blues

FYI, I work on ships, as in Containerships, Engines with 39000 HP bore 90 cm and storke about 9 meters, no foolin !
Anyway, we's going across the Pacific, my boss has a Viper, went to le Mans and watched the "factory" effort after he bought his car, loves it...all except the part where his car kept eating rear diff seals, took it to the dealer a bunch of times and got a lot of new seals, and finially they gave up and sent him to a local driveline specialist, who inspected his diff and chucked it up, (the apparently aluminum drive shaft), measured the run out and it was the cause of leaky leaky, because his car was out of warranty he has a new steel driveshaft made AT HIS EXPENSE BTW, and has never looked back,

of course I let him drive my car, his seat of the pants impression was that is was FAR from a dog (06 Tungsten) and was "more powerful than his car,

His 4(?) year old car has 2500 miles, my 06 has 390 miles,

true story, so what's the significance of the preface about my job title? we have alot of time to talk cars over a 13000 mile trans pacific crossing. All we do is compare and contrast...He still loves his car, I believe the Viper is a fine car, no better and their QA is no better than Ford's, how could it be? they use all the same 'best avaliable technology' to build their cars too. no car company would slit their throat installing substandard parts IF THEY KNEW ABOUT IT, it's bad every where, bottom line $, Public relations, recalls...etc etc

my 2 cents
 

ROCMAN

Big Dawg!
Mark IV Lifetime
Mar 9, 2006
1,625
USA
With all this Viper talk, I went out and bought one this evening.:biggrin
Solid blue Coupe! Just got back from the dealer.:banana
 

fjpikul

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Jan 4, 2006
11,512
Belleville, IL
XR750, does this mean you can sneak all of our cars to and from LeMans for a trip at little or NO cost? Many of us would be interested.
 

B O N Y

MODERATOR & FGT OWNER
Mark IV Lifetime
Sep 5, 2005
12,110
Fresno, Ca.
With all this Viper talk, I went out and bought one this evening.:biggrin
Solid blue Coupe! Just got back from the dealer.:banana

Congratulations!! To bad you didn't get the white with blue stripes to match the GT. Enjoy in the best of health!:biggrin :biggrin
 

B O N Y

MODERATOR & FGT OWNER
Mark IV Lifetime
Sep 5, 2005
12,110
Fresno, Ca.
Useless, I did the same things when I was a kid. Remember the fat lady? She is still laughing

Photo:
http://www.museemecanique.org/machine_sally.html
The laugh
http://www.museemecanique.org/index.html

I know the manager of this place, but haven't seen him for 25 years.

Bony did you grow up in SF? I was born and raised there and that is extremely rare due to demographics.

Bony, I forgot to mention, this museum has vintage porn movies! Pre-DVD, pre-tape, pre-film. A coin machine showning a motion picture clip that is like a flipbook.

BlackICE


Wow, yes I did, I haven't been on Pier 39 since they opened it. Still have my parents house on Avila and another rental property on Pierce. However, my political leanings are not those of a typical current resident. When I was a kid my mom would wear a hat and gloves before going down to Union Square to shop at I. Magnins. Long time ago, lots of water under the Golden Gate.:wink
 

ROCMAN

Big Dawg!
Mark IV Lifetime
Mar 9, 2006
1,625
USA
Congratulations!! To bad you didn't get the white with blue stripes to match the GT. Enjoy in the best of health!:biggrin :biggrin


Thanks Bony.
I was going to get a Stradale, but after thinking about it, I figured that one of my issues was not being able to drive a sports car without worrying about it in a parking lot, out of sight. I would not be able to do that with the Stradale, and can't do that with the GT.:wink
 

MAD IN NC

Proud Owner/ BOD blah bla
Mark IV Lifetime
Feb 14, 2006
4,211
North Carolina
CSX 2104


If you meet two women a butt ugly one that will go home with you for right away and a beautiful one will go home with your after a some drinks, dinner and a show, which one would you chose? They both will perform the same around the track, disregarding their appearance.

As know what I would do, how about you? I think I know what your choice would be.

BlackICE


Great summary! :lol Now for the show!


Rocman - congrats! what are you selling off next?
 

XR750

GT Owner
Oct 16, 2006
20
At little or no cost...

well sorry guys
Like I said...I am on the Trans PACIFIC run, not the Trans Atlantic....

maybe worth changing jobs though:willy ....
cheers
JJ
 

Kayvan

GT Owner
Jul 13, 2006
4,782
One word:

New = 3 yr Warranty

Used = 0.5-1yr warranty

Warranty starts the date of first sale, sale of a 2005 b/w Oct 04-January '05 Car aint got much left on clock. And the rare warranty repairs are not to be taken lightly
 
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BigsGT

Tungsten GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Mar 8, 2006
604
Austin Texas
Damn! took me 30 minutes and two naps to get through all that :bs

Nice purchase Mark, the piggy bank needs to be fed, more thenanything it was yours and Krazy's buying a GT that gave me the push I needed.

Ahem!!!

Thanks a lot Ron! :( :lol

Get 'er Done and welcome to the club! You won't regret it!

BTW CSX, you long winded whiner, There are many Vipers around here and only a few GT's, yet there are NO Vipertechs at any of our local 5 Star Dodge dealerships. As a matter of fact, the only two I know of in the area work at the Ford dealership where I bought my GT! One has been certified to work on GT's. I've even taken my Viper to the Ford dealer for work because that's where the techs are! So much for your statement that Dodge requires every dealer to have a trained ViperTech! :bs :lol
 

todd

GT Owner
Feb 3, 2006
1,020
so. ca.
Ron have you bought your gt yet?