Filling tires with nitrogen.

[doccars]

I know nitrogen is often used in race car and high performance tires to decrease the change in tire pressure as operating and ambient temperatures change. Does anyone know if the GT tires are filled at the factroy with nitrogen as apposed to air and where would one get cylinders of nitrogen for this application?

 

[SuperB]

I seriously doubt Ford would spend the money to do this at the factory, they would probably need refilling anyway as they sit on a show room floor. Then they would have to tell all the new owners and service our cars. Can't imagine all the ford dealers stocking a can of nitrogen just to fill up some tires.

 

[SLF360]

We do this with the Ferraris in Italy all the time. Good when you go to track aswell, less pressurechange as the gas is heavier than airmix when the tyre heats up (still after like three four laps we go to pit and recontrol the tyre pressure and let out some), and it seems to hold better too. But I think for normal streetuse, you can live without that..

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

We do this with the Ferraris in Italy all the time. Good when you go to track aswell, less pressurechange as the gas is heavier than airmix when the tyre heats up (still after like three four laps we go to pit and recontrol the tyre pressure and let out some), and it seems to hold better too. But I think for normal streetuse, you can live without that..

I'm pretty sure nitrogen is lighter then what we call "air" And last I checked when gasses got hotter, they didnt get heavier, they just got "pissed off" meaning they are more aggitated and move around, requiring them more space for movement (aka increased pressure) but not increased weight.

But who knows, only been about 20 years since I was in basic science class

Jon

 

[SLF360]

I'm pretty sure nitrogen is lighter then what we call "air" And last I checked when gasses got hotter, they didnt get heavier, they just got "pissed off" meaning they are more aggitated and move around, requiring them more space for movement (aka increased pressure) but not increased weight.

But who knows, only been about 20 years since I was in basic science class

Jon

Nitrogen is heavier. Trust me. Nitrogen ballons dont fly, Oxigen once do. They also explode nicely, by the way, whilst Nitrogen don't ignite. Molecules are bigger, hence less tendency to be moved around and be 'pissed off ' (higher inertia) as you call it. That's the thing.

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

Nitrogen is heavier. Trust me. Nitrogen ballons dont fly, Oxigen once do. They also explode nicely, by the way, whilst Nitrogen don't ignite. Molecules are bigger, hence less tendency to be moved around and be 'pissed off ' (higher inertia) as you call it. That's the thing.

Nitrogen is still lighter then air, Oxygen's molecule is 32, Nitrogens molecule is 28, and what we know as "air" is 29 (an everage of oxegen and nitrogen in the air). So your statement about oxygen balloons flying is way off, you were also way off on oxygen exploding, or even nitrogen , neither one of them is a fuel, its an oxidizer, it would enable a combustion, but it in itself can not and will not explode.

Look up density of air, oxygen and nitrogen at room temperature, you'll see.

Another interesting fact, nitrogen is inert, oxygen is reactive, oxygen actually attacks the rubber and hardens it over time. Nitrogen does not. This is trivial, as you often wear out the tires before the oxygen does its damage of hardening the rubber and also unforunetly the outside is always exposed to oxygen/air so you couldn't resolve that issue even if you put nitrogen in the tires.

Anyways, I'll give you a heads up I grew up knowing this guy, who has a masters in organic chemistry and a masters polymer science, he goes by the name of Dad. :biggrin

splitting hairs, as I agree nitrogen is nice to have in the tires most usable for track activities, not very practicle/worth while on the street.

Jon

 

[SuperB]

From the trusty internet: Also explains why tires usually only loose 10 lb's

Nitrogen is a dry, inert gas used to inflated airplane tires, off-road truck tires, military vehicle tires, and race car tires for improved performance. Oxygen is compressed air permeates through the tire wall, oxygen oxidizes the rubber compounds in the tire, causing under inflation and deteriorated rubber. Dry nitrogen will prevent auto-ignition, will not corrode rims, and helps the tire to run cooler

Nitrogen -- a dry, inert gas used by racing professionals and the U.S. military to inflate racecar tires and military vehicles, respectively -- leaks through a tire's rubber walls three times more slowly than oxygen. As a result, tires filled with high-quality nitrogen delivered by IR's system stay inflated longer, which allows them to grip the road better and provide greater control in all weather conditions.

"It's an obvious safety issue," said Ray Evernham, a three-time NASCAR Nextel Cup champion crew chief, team owner of Evernham Motorsports and an IR spokesperson. "Simply put, tires filled with nitrogen provide more stable pressure. That's why IR's Nitrogen Tire Filling System represents the best solution for drivers and tire-repair centers."

Let's start with the air we breathe Main chemical compound of the air that we breathe......


78% Nitrogen
21% Oxygen
0.9% Argon
0.1% Miscellaneous other

The air that we compress and use every day, is predominantly nitrogen? Additionally, ambient air contains impurities, such as pollution and moisture.

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

wow, I actually impressed myself with saying much of what the "internet gospil" said, in what I believe was normal talk... anyways, if we were racing, I just won :biggrin j/k

Jon

 

[Specracer]

As mentioned, a bottle of nitrogen is much cleaner, and less moisture, yielding a more consistant change of pressure from cold to hot. But logistics play a roll for me. I can have a bottle that can last a whole racing season, easier, and takes up less space than a compressor in the trailer, and you can even run air tools off it. For the street? as long as the air is clean and dry I would not bother, but if bottle is close, I use it because it is easier than firing up the compressor just to add air to 4 tires.

 

[FrankBarba]

back to your origional question: where would on find a canister of nitrogen? Welding supply store> ie, airgas

 

[SLF360]

Look up density of air, oxygen and nitrogen at room temperature, you'll see.

Another interesting fact, nitrogen is inert, oxygen is reactive, oxygen actually attacks the rubber and hardens it over time. Nitrogen does not.

splitting hairs, as I agree nitrogen is nice to have in the tires most usable for track activities, not very practicle/worth while on the street.

Jon

Well, I think we agree that Nitrogen has advantages, and agree on the hairsplitting. Helium (inert too) would be nice, but it is too volatile a molecule. I still tell you Nitrogen dissipates less quick that an pure O2 or even air (mix !). if this is wrong, I'd be learning something new...So if you have data to go with your hypothesis, pls forward. Not sure though...

ask your dad... :thumbsup

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

Well, I think we agree that Nitrogen has advantages, and agree on the hairsplitting. Helium (inert too) would be nice, but it is too volatile a molecule. I still tell you Nitrogen dissipates less quick that an pure O2 or even air (mix !). if this is wrong, I'd be learning something new...So if you have data to go with your hypothesis, pls forward. Not sure though...

ask your dad... :thumbsup

lol, dont have to ask my pops, because I already know that Nitrogen does dissipate less quickly, another one of its advantages (because again its not trying to attack the rubber and get the hell out of the tire), but again, not very significant for the street car driver, but to each his own. :thumbsup


Jon

 

[abolfaz]

How about filling them with methane, at least that way we could smell a leak... :ack :lol

 

[SuperB]

Funny you say that, there was a gas leak 50 yards from my house yesterday.
We evacuated, but I had to leave the GT behind. She's ok though, headlights are a bit green though :ack hehe

 

[B O N Y]

Guess I will go down to COSTCO and have them change out the air for nitrogen.
They have the best hot dogs West of Chicago :biggrin

 

[FGT4me]

Specracer's point is the key one with regard to less fluctuation in tire pressure as it heats/cools.
It's the moisture in ambient air which exaggerates this... this is minimized with nitrogen.

 

[Specracer]

Yes, the bottles (various sizes as well) can be gotten with out any effort from any welding supply store, airgas etc. I have not gotten one since the fall, but it was less than $100. If you go this route, do not forget you will need to buy a regulator, on the outlet of the reg. you attach a standard female air chuck.....

 

[doccars]

Thanks for all the information and heads up on where to obtain nitrogen. When I get the time, just out of curiosity I am going to call the Ford Gt customer number to find out if in fact they fill the tires at the factory with nitrogen. If I get an answer, I will post it.

 

[doccars]

Nitrogen in tires

Just a brief follow up on the question of the factory using nitrogen in the tires. I recently had occasion to contact the factory on an unrelated question. I asked the Ford contact if she could confirm if the factory uses air or nitrogen (as used in some high performance cars) to fill the tires. Several hours later I recieved a reply stating that they use air.

The mystery for me is now solved. I must add that I am impressed with their promptness and Ford's attempts to assist GT owners. They are in my opinion going that extra mile, apparently attempting to cement a relationship.

 

[B O N Y]

Seriously, if you really want nitrogen, go to a Costco store, that is what they are putting in their tires here in California and using it as a selling point.