Excess gear whine from transaxle


nota4re

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Feb 15, 2006
4,177
Not to derail the thread, but who on our Forum still sells the transaxle gear oil?

As a said previously in this thread, we will always have a case or two on-hand. To help prevent folks from getting the wrong stuff, I'm going to add it to our website so that it is easy for Forum members to click and order.

As an aside... adding fluid back into the transaxle after a change was really becoming a chore for us beginning a few years ago. The "hand lotion-like" pumps at the auto parts store do work but if I remember correctly, each quart requires something like 97 full pumps. Those of you that do transmission and/or differential fluid changes know that they present a similar challenge. Every problem needs a solution... so we scrounged around the garage and put together a few parts, refined the design a couple of times, and the "Lube Mover" was born. Pour your fluid into the Lube Mover, place the tube in your transaxle, and give the pump a few strokes to pressurize the vessel and the job is done very easily. We're definitely not going to get rich off of the Lube Mover, but it's a real handy product for those that deal with drivetrain lubricants.

I'll post a link for the fluid in a new thread so we don't take this one off track too far.

Beez, best of luck to you on Friday. Change that fluid and we're all going to have our fingers crossed that it will eliminate or substantially reduce the gear noise that you have.
 

Sinovac

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Jul 18, 2006
5,832
Largo, Florida
How much do you spend in legal fees to collect something in the $13-16,000 range? There is no pain and suffering (in the eyes of the law) so probably not worth it for an attorney to take on a contingency either, tho I will let Sinovac educate me on this if wrong.

No education needed. You're right.
 

ChipBeck

GT Owner
Staff member
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Feb 13, 2006
5,770
Scottsdale, Arizona
Naturally any other details, no matter how small, are of interest to me. For example, how long (miles/time) would you guess you put up with it and did it slowly worsen over time? Was there anything learned along the way about which parts went bad to cause the noise?

Hmmm, pretty opposite advice from very knowledgeable people. What if Mark/Kevin could find a part they could source to fix it, before I makeeliminate all options other than buy a whole new unit?

Very hard to imagine being able to enjoy the UT trip listening to and thinking about this damn noise every mile of the whole time.

Beez,

Again, my GT has 20,000 miles, lots of runs at the Texas & Mojavi Miles putting 1150+ HP through it, a lot of track days. But I think I did the damage when I blew a shift from 3rd to 4th gear. I accidentally went from 3rd to 2nd. Right after that I noticed the noise.

Don't sweat it. I took my GT to Europe for two weeks and chased DBK at 140+ MPH on the autobahn during our pre Le Mans Rally. You have some worn gears, not broken gears. You could probably drive it another 50,000 miles and it would never break. It would probably get louder in time however. Drive the damn thing at the rally and have a good time. Stuff happens, fix it when it's convenient. You're not going to get stranded, I can assure you of that.

Chip
 
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nautoncall

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Apr 6, 2014
1,093
Great advice Chip


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Beez

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Oct 28, 2016
195
South Denver
Today's updates include some good news, but not so good as the noise going away.

Drained the fluid. Darker/dirtier looking than I expected. The screen had a small amount of tiny metal dust, that seemed to make the fluid I wiped off the screen especially black. The amount of metal dust/fuzz on the magnet was about the size of half of a pea, well within expected as per Nota4re. Then I strained all the old fluid through a metal coffee filter.

Correct/new on the left, old in a clean jar for future testing:

IMG_2002.jpg

Black on paper towel wiped off screen, small amount metal on magnet shown:

IMG_1997.jpg

Total of filtered metal:

IMG_1994.jpg

After filling with the correct fluid, I briefly fantasized that the noise was gone. Turns out the noise isn't there while the fluid is cold, but as soon as the car warmed up, it was back. I can't say that it sounds any better or different with the correct fluid in.

The noise is most annoying between about 45 - 60 mph. Above that the faster the better, so I guess I'll just need to keep the right foot down to get to Utah, lol.

After the test drive, I took a few deep breaths and called the dealer in Dallas. Spoke to the head of the service dept. He said they get a lot of GTs in, and the tech that did the work on mine is very experienced with them. He raised the possibility that the tech really used the right fluid but charged for the wrong fluid, (that costs far less). Right.

Overall the conversation went as well as I could have hoped for. He said things like this are why they carry shop liability insurance. He indicated if I can prove the fluid I drained out was the wrong fluid, and a Ford technician confirms the transaxle has a problem, and I find an expert to say the fluid likely caused the problem, that he would assist in submitting a claim.
 

Beez

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Oct 28, 2016
195
South Denver
Also want to share a couple little tips from todays transaxle fluid change. The socket sizes needed to remove the fill, drain, and magnet plugs are 22, 24, and 32 mm. Torque is 20 ft/lbs.

It is very easy to fill the transaxle using just good old gravity and a funnel by removing the airbox. That is just two 10mm bolts, loosen a screw clamp, and unclip the MAF sensor, 2 mins to get wide open access.

IMG_1998.jpg

IMG_1999.jpg
 
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spartan

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Feb 11, 2017
1,216
Bloomfield Hills MI
Nice work Beez. Look forward to seeing you in UT. Hope all ends well with the dealer.
 

nota4re

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Feb 15, 2006
4,177
Beez, great update and pics. Nothing looks out of the ordinary other than the milky color of the fluid in the jar. It also sounds like you had a very reasonable discussion with the dealership. Note: If I was that Service Manager, I'd probably check the records of the other GT's I'd serviced!

The best news is that you are undeterred to head off to the Rally. I really like and agree with Chip's posts - just get there and have fun!! worry about this (or not) on another day!

Unless you have an alternate plan, I would recommend that you call the folks at Blackstone Labs https://www.blackstone-labs.com/ on Monday. Tell them about the situation and ask them if you could send them 2(*) oil samples - one of the oil that came out of the transaxle and one that was the fresh GT-spec oil and ask them if they could determine if they were one in the same. * = You might think to send them 3 samples - the third being the oil that matches what was on your receipt. See if they can give you definitive proof of the heritage of the used oil that came out.

Best of luck to you. Have a very safe journey and have a GREAT time at the Rally!
 

NorthwoodGT

GT Owner
Jun 12, 2009
1,215
Michigan
another product for moving fluid easily is the hand pump that screws onto the quart bottle that's used for marine out drives and out boards to fill the lower unit. same principal and can be bought for about $8.95. that's all I've ever used.
 

PeteK

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Apr 18, 2014
2,268
Kalama, Free part of WA State
Gravity needs no maintenance either.
 

Fubar

Totally ****** Up
Mark II Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Aug 2, 2006
3,979
Dallas, TX
One more dark cloud to throw at you, I have seen at least 3 GT transmissions come through my mechanic's shop with pinion gear teeth that are damaged. I have heard all sorts of speculation on the cause but it doesn't change the fact. Two of those cars were modified to <750hp but one was bone stock.

We really need a source for transmission PARTS on this car (not a complete transmission). I hope your problems can be solved for less than the cost of a full tranny.

Here is a picture from my transmission, you can see the jagged edge along the gear. Nothing can really be done to "fix" short of a new gear (in this case an entire transmission).

attachment.php
 
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2112

Blue/white 06'
Mark II Lifetime
Can that be polished and cryogenically treated?
 

B.M.F.

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Jan 29, 2009
1,782
Minnesota
I have some transmission parts still. Also have the ability to have it rebiult. Probably had 5 of them done now and they all work flawlessly. have also cryo'd, polished gears etc.
 

nautoncall

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Apr 6, 2014
1,093
I have some transmission parts still. Also have the ability to have it rebiult. Probably had 5 of them done now and they all work flawlessly. have also cryo'd, polished gears etc.

So you can rebuild our trannys?? Haven't had anyone say that!! If so that's great news!!


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B.M.F.

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Jan 29, 2009
1,782
Minnesota
So you can rebuild our trannys?? Haven't had anyone say that!! If so that's great news!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

yes i can. Ive had about 5 of them done. I have one in my Gt that makes 1400whp and have put 12000 miles on the trans shifting it at 7900-8500rpms aswell. I have about 4-5 parts trans axles aswell.
 

Fubar

Totally ****** Up
Mark II Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Aug 2, 2006
3,979
Dallas, TX
Can that be polished and cryogenically treated?

I have never heard of the process but I'll look into it. Thanks.
 

Xcentric

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Jul 9, 2012
5,213
Myakka City, Florida
What is the operational impact of those eroded teeth? Looks like 99% of contact area is good, and of course with a film of lubricant between. Is that enough to take out the transaxle?

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2112

Blue/white 06'
Mark II Lifetime
I have never heard of the process but I'll look into it. Thanks.

I have been having my gears done in my boat outdrives for years. I have a outdrive specialist do them, I am not sure where he has it done but BMF might share his source.

I agree with Xcentric. I think after deburring, polishing and cryo, those gears can be used again. I have seen worse polished up and made to work well.
 

PeteK

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Apr 18, 2014
2,268
Kalama, Free part of WA State
Look up cryogenic treatment online. It's used for many applications, although as a mech engineer, I'm not sold on the hype.
 

2112

Blue/white 06'
Mark II Lifetime
Documented data is hard to come by.

I first did it in 2003 or 2004 and haven't blown up an outdrive since doing it.

Anecdotal stories aside............................are well, you know.

http://www.gearsolutions.com/article/detail/5937/cryogenic-treatment--of-gears