Drive shaft bolts

[06gt1858]

On my 06 # 1858 has a split ring washer that is behind the allen bolts that hold the shaft to the trans. this is one large washer with holes in it for each allen bolt...is this the washer all have been talking about that get smashed just before she throws a shoe? or is mine upgraded because it is a late 06 production run? any one Know?:willy

Thanks for the input

Steve 06gt1858

 

[Shadowman]

On my 06 # 1858 has a split ring washer that is behind the allen bolts that hold the shaft to the trans. this is one large washer with holes in it for each allen bolt...is this the washer all have been talking about that get smashed just before she throws a shoe? or is mine upgraded because it is a late 06 production run? any one Know?:willy

Thanks for the input

Steve 06gt1858

Steve the bolts that you are referring to are those that retain the CV assembly to the half shaft coupler. Once those bolts are removed and the end of axle is moved out of the way there are two bolts and a single large washer that holds the coupler to the transaxle. These are the bolts to which the folks are speaking.

In short; the bolts in question are not able to be seen without removing the half shaft.

All the best

Shadowman

 

[06gt1858]

Steve the bolts that you are referring to are those that retain the CV assembly to the half shaft coupler. Once those bolts are removed and the end of axle is moved out of the way there are two bolts and a single large washer that holds the coupler to the transaxle. These are the bolts to which the folks are speaking.

In short; the bolts in question are not able to be seen without removing the half shaft.

All the best

Shadowman

Shadowman, I dont have a manual yet, so your help is great!, So the bolts in question are inside the shaft where the half shafts are bolded together? When they leave the party, then the 1/2 of the shaft (CV) that is bolted to the tranny loses it drive? so simplely all the tork is being sent through those 2 bolts inside? The CV part of the two halfs has no splines? I have read here that there has been tranny oil leaks with the break-up, where does that come from if the shaft doesnt actully come apart where bolted together to the CV,? or does the bolts shearing cause the half shaft and the CV to come out of the tranny altogeher?

Thanks

Steve

 

[Shadowman]

Shadowman, I dont have a manual yet, so your help is great!, So the bolts in question are inside the shaft where the half shafts are bolded together? When they leave the party, then the 1/2 of the shaft (CV) that is bolted to the tranny loses it drive? so simplely all the tork is being sent through those 2 bolts inside? The CV part of the two halfs has no splines? I have read here that there has been tranny oil leaks with the break-up, where does that come from if the shaft doesnt actully come apart where bolted together to the CV,? or does the bolts shearing cause the half shaft and the CV to come out of the tranny altogeher?

Thanks

Steve

Close

Picture the transaxle with a protruding splined shaft..... on which a splined coupler is installed on the shaft..... this coupler is retained on this shaft with 2 bolts going through a single large washer...... then the CV assembly with the half shaft attached is bolted on with the perimeter bolts that you see.

What has happened to some folks is the two bolts inside that secure the coupler on the splined shaft either come loose and fall out or ...... the heads snap off (still within the hidden cavity) at which time the half shaft with the CV still attached to the coupler comes of the spines = no more movement.

It is because of this total lack of movement that I questioned in an earlier thread what differential center section is being used and whether it is a even a limited slip.

I hope that this helps

Shadowman

 

[06gt1858]

Close

Picture the transaxle with a protruding splined shaft..... on which a splined coupler is installed on the shaft..... this coupler is retained on this shaft with 2 bolts going through a single large washer...... then the CV assembly with the half shaft attached is bolted on with the perimeter bolts that you see.

What has happened to some folks is the two bolts inside that secure the coupler on the splined shaft either come loose and fall out or ...... the heads snap off (still within the hidden cavity) at which time the half shaft with the CV still attached to the coupler comes of the spines = no more movement.

It is because of this total lack of movement that I questioned in an earlier thread what differential center section is being used and whether it is a even a limited slip.

I hope that this helps

Shadowman

Shawdowman, That's real clear! Thanks... Interesting issue is how the bolts would shear of if they simply hold a male and female spline combo together , enless there are forces applyed to it other than rotation torqe (as the splines take the forces), based on your discription there is enough suspention travel for the unit to just drop out of the tranny? it sounds to me that at failure, the to half shafts stay together. I have read the treads here and some indicate that it happened at a stop sign,
Thanks

Steve 06gt1858

 

[Shadowman]

Shawdowman, That's real clear! Thanks... Interesting issue is how the bolts would shear of if they simply hold a male and female spline combo together , enless there are forces applyed to it other than rotation torqe (as the splines take the forces), based on your discription there is enough suspention travel for the unit to just drop out of the tranny? it sounds to me that at failure, the to half shafts stay together. I have read the treads here and some indicate that it happened at a stop sign,
Thanks

Steve 06gt1858

Now I have no basis in fact as I share this however it is suspected by several that some of the gals have a loose fit at the splines; meaning the coupler has measurable axial rotation at the receiving splined shaft as such the bolts are then receiving side pressure rather than simply working as designed for retaining aka clamp load.

This possibility lends heavily to the fact that no one was ever able to get a handle which gals would be affected.

Shadowman

 

[06gt1858]

I still am at a loss ( happenning alot more with age) How does the shaft comeout of the tranny when the half shafts stay together, There would have to be min, spline coverage for it to simply drop out of the tranny?

Steve

 

[Shadowman]

I still am at a loss ( happenning alot more with age) How does the shaft comeout of the tranny when the half shafts stay together, There would have to be min, spline coverage for it to simply drop out of the tranny?

Steve

You are funny and to think that I thought I was the only one with this issue.

Considering that mine have not come out I am sharing based on conversations with those that have. Furthermore; at least one person had the experience and then slipped the half shaft assembly back into place and then methodically drove her a short distance home. Most have simply recoginzed the problem and pushed to her the side of the road and waited for the flatbed.

Now the CV joint by design allows for both anglular and in and movement; in this case two per half shaft as such the free movement is significant. Furthermore the splined coupler that is secured to the splined stub shaft (for lack of a better word) located as a component of the transaxle only slides on a relatively small amount. Now I can only speculate on this but my guess would be only a couple inches; if that. It maybe better described as a receiving flange when compared to a coupler hence the reason that it is secured by the two bolts and single washer. This flange aka coupler should receive no axial or in and pressure or torque. The in and out movement is designed into the half shafts and controlled by the CV joints and the axial torque should be transfered to the primary splined shaft aka stub shaft protruding out of the transaxle case.

If these splines are a close tolerance machine fit then for all practical purposes the splined flange aka coupler and the recieving spline aka stub shaft would act and work as a single unit; The only purpose for the two bolts would be to keep it from sliding....key word is "sliding" off because throughout the movement of the suspension there should NEVER be a pulling load placed against it. The only reason that the flange aka coupler was not machined as a part of the stub shaft was for initial assembly and future service. This certainly remain only my opinion at yet hopefully this help to clarify the mechanical relationship between the flange aka coupler and the stub shaft.

I hope that I am answering your question

Shadowman

 

[06gt1858]

Shadowman, I had a engineer friend of mine slap me upside the head and wake me up from a sudden onset of a mid afternoon nap! and is compleate agreement with your outlook. He thinks that there is "in some of the trannys" a sloppy spline fit, that is puting torqe presure on the bolts that are designed only to hold the recieving spline on, In his humble opinion ( this guy forgot more about cars than I know) he does not think that there is a perm fix for this just based on it design, and if your are going to drive it hard then "replace often" :rofl :rofl He would bet my last buck (not his) that if it happens to anyone it's because the driver has been provideing "smoke shows" for the crowd just before failure :rofl :rofl LOL

Steve

06gt1858

 

[Shadowman]

Shadowman, I had a engineer friend of mine slap me upside the head and wake me up from a sudden onset of a mid afternoon nap! and is compleate agreement with your outlook. He thinks that there is "in some of the trannys" a sloppy spline fit, that is puting torqe presure on the bolts that are designed only to hold the recieving spline on, In his humble opinion ( this guy forgot more about cars than I know) he does not think that there is a perm fix for this just based on it design, and if your are going to drive it hard then "replace often" :rofl :rofl He would bet my last buck (not his) that if it happens to anyone it's because the driver has been provideing "smoke shows" for the crowd just before failure :rofl :rofl LOL

Steve

06gt1858

It is amazing the level of conversation that took place between us during your nap; LOL

Several folks have speculated that "sadly" it is the draw of the cards. Most agree that if preemptively one does an inspection they would likely know if theirs is prone to failure based on the spline fit.

Now an interesting aside; in Ford’s TSB they speak to fluid passing through the splines and if noticed to clean and prep the splines prior to applying their silicon, Hylomar, or whatever it is. Now once again not having a basis in fact to say this nevertheless by filling the splines with such a product and then reassembling the pieces once cured the results could be a form of hydro-locking; meaning because of the space constraints within the spline area the filler material used could act as a solid thus controlling if not totally eliminating the axial movement which in the end would mean no side stress on the bolts and then “WHOLLA” a long and safe journey.

Considering that the Ricardo units were assembled in the UK and they offer no field servicing; all units must be shipped back to them it will likely limit most to wonder through this maze alone.

Lastly; I doubt that tire shredding burnouts would have a real affect other than to accelerate the resulting failure if that particular gal’s splines as loose. I chatted with TonyG about this issues weeks ago asking specifically about Joe and Torrie’s gals to which he said “we have seen no failures however we have also had the assemblies apart more than most during the tweaking processes”.

My gut tells me that they have had more tire shredding burnouts than most

Takes care

Shadowman