We are doing a stroker 6.1L Ford 4V build in a GT500 with Winberg crank. Site is http://www.winbergcrankshafts.com/
Billet crank for the GT?
- Thread starter Jason Watt
- Start date
PeteK
GT Owner
Yes Sir- thanks! Michael Rauscher, owner of L&M Engines, was consulted on this & he is doing this Texas Mile build. It's replacing the 5.8 which he built that's still in the car. Looking for more HP, Tork, MPH! Lol!
PL510*Jeff
Well-known member
from wiki: Billet
Steel billets
For the colloquial use of the term, see Bar stock.
A billet is a length of metal that has a round or square cross-section, with an area less than 36 in2 (230 cm2). Billets are created directly via continuous casting or extrusion or indirectly via hot rolling an ingot or bloom.[1][2][4] Billets are further processed via profile rolling and drawing. Final products include bar stock and wire.[3]
Centrifugal casting is also used to produce short circular tubes as billets, usually to achieve a precise metallurgical structure. They are commonly used as cylinder sleeves where the inner and outer diameters are ground and machined to length. Because their size is not modified significantly, they are not always classified as semi-finished casting products.
In copper production, a billet is a 30' long, about 8" diameter, of pure copper.[5]
Indy GT
Yea, I got one...too
Thanks Scott for the above. I too agree, it is not worth trying to explain the engineering differences to people who have already formed their opinions from internet chatter. Everyone is an expert. Jeff thanks also for the definitions.
Let’s see, using the above dimensional billet definitions (36 in2) for a square billet, you would have a 6”x6” bar of material. I do not know the final counterweight diameters on our FGT crank but just eyeballing a 6x6 box it might be tough to hog out a crank. Maybe you can, but certainly not a given. With a round billet configuration you would be limited to a maximum diameter of 6.8”. Again maybe you can machine out a crank from that diameter size, maybe you can’t.
You do not want to start with a material blank (billet) which has been “continuously cast” or “centrifugally cast” (IMO) for a crankshaft application. Forging metallurgy is much, much better than these casting techniques. Extrusion or hot rolling is better but if you are mechanically working a large 6x6 cross section block, it is unlikely the material working these processes impose on the material will uniformly extend throughout the full billet area and more importantly toward the billet area center where the material for the main journals will be after machining.
For a crankshaft application, I would only want a forging produced blank from which to start the machining process.
Cobrar
GT Owner
Good morning Bill!
What is this term "hog out"?? Is this a some new exotic manufacturing process? :wink
What is this term "hog out"?? Is this a some new exotic manufacturing process? :wink
PL510*Jeff
Well-known member
twobjshelbys
GT Owner
Bryant Racing cranks are made from a round raw forging. They are brought via train from Pa to Cali. They are then Cnc cut (ie reason people use the term BILLET).. They are one of the TOP manufactures of racing crankshafts in the U.S and used by every single motorsports that requires a crank shaft. As we all know Oe stuff is great and has been proven to also support 1500-2000 HP.. But there are significant gains and this you can do when you make your own crank shaft to your specs.. I designed the First billet Crank for the 5.4 Ford GT motor in 2009 with some insight from John Mihovetz aswell. There are some key things that need improvement over an OE crank for extreme applications in the Ford GT motor....
twobjshelbys
GT Owner
How is the flat plane crank in the new GT350 made? Being a 180* design I would expect the dimensions to be a little wider.
PeteK
GT Owner
Indy GT
Yea, I got one...too
Ahhh Pete, Rex is just pulling my leg....:biggrin
He understands the technical jargon!
BMF,
I totally understand. And it is quite amazing that our OE 5.4 crankshaft can support owners who have elected to increase their engine power by roughly 360%! The designers gave us a VERY robust OE engine design. But that is not always the case and certainly over-designing a component relative to its intended duty cycle costs money and typically weight. The bean counters like to maximize Return On Investment (ROI) so over-designing (at least to the level we have seen demonstrated with our engine) is not generally done.
Now if you change the design requirements of the crankshaft by upping the intended horsepower for "extreme applications in the Ford GT motor" then I would fully expect that "some key things" with the crankshaft design certainly would need "improvement" (or in reality redesigned due to a new expected requirement). But that is no reflection on the OE design as it's geometry was not created for these extreme applications.
He understands the technical jargon!
BMF,
I totally understand. And it is quite amazing that our OE 5.4 crankshaft can support owners who have elected to increase their engine power by roughly 360%! The designers gave us a VERY robust OE engine design. But that is not always the case and certainly over-designing a component relative to its intended duty cycle costs money and typically weight. The bean counters like to maximize Return On Investment (ROI) so over-designing (at least to the level we have seen demonstrated with our engine) is not generally done.
Now if you change the design requirements of the crankshaft by upping the intended horsepower for "extreme applications in the Ford GT motor" then I would fully expect that "some key things" with the crankshaft design certainly would need "improvement" (or in reality redesigned due to a new expected requirement). But that is no reflection on the OE design as it's geometry was not created for these extreme applications.
Mullet
FORD GT OWNER
analogdesigner
GT Owner
Yeah, "hog out" or "hogging out" is a machinist term when large amounts of material must be removed from the original piece. My friend recently took a 400 pound chunk of aluminum and after a week of machining reduced it down a to part that weighed about 20 pounds. That's hogging something out!
The term "billet" is badly abused in the consumer automotive industry. At least 95% of aftermarket "billet" parts do not come from a billet.
Jay