Gun Newbie


jaxgt

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Jul 12, 2006
2,811
Certainly don't forget the obvious deterrents - well lit perimeter, barking dog, home alarm system with back up power, perhaps perimeter alarm system.

I can't agree with the above posts more - repetition is the most important training tool, as in times of stress, nothing beats muscle memory.
 

S592R

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Dec 3, 2006
2,800
I have a Winchester riot 12 gage for home defense (with slugs). One night my dog was attacked by a raccoon (big one) so I go out and unload the 12 on the raccoon. I took down my entire back yard fence in the process. (don't worry, my house backed up to 500 acres of free range at the time).

It was kind of funny the next day. A little sunlight put a whole new shine on my rambo routine. The most important thing is to be careful. Post up a picture of your fist kill :)


Video of Mark shooting in his backyard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhstuvzMiB0
 

ChipBeck

GT Owner
Staff member
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Feb 13, 2006
5,783
Scottsdale, Arizona
Handicapped.

I know some people are of the mind that gun ownership is just one big dick swinging contest.....

Damn.....I've lost before this contest even gets going. :bored

Chip
 

Gulf GT

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Feb 9, 2006
1,539
California
In our encounter with an armed intruder, who was wearing a bullet proof vest I might add, we learned a lot of lessons. First, we had cameras in the yard with motion sensors and a tone notification system that was audible inside the house, and he kept coming anyway. None the less, this is what saved our lives. Early warning of the attack was the key. We have since made that notification louder to also let the intruder know that he has been detected, and changed the cameras to Bosch Auto Track systems that have the motion detection built into the camera heads that acquire the intruder and follows them. In our encounter there were a few moments when we didn’t know where he was due to fixed cameras and that would have been very helpful. We followed the advice of the Sherriff’s Dept and bought a German trained protection dog, a $28,000 German shepherd. I have done my homework, and large household dogs are good for basic deterrence and a noise maker, but are no match for a real criminal, and these days many of them are “real criminals”. Anyone you feel is “bad” enough that you need a gun to defend yourself with dispatch your family dog in a couple seconds. 100lb 2 year trained German Shepherds don’t back off when hit with baseball bats, and they won’t let go no matter what you do to them. These animals are heat seeking missiles than don’t just “bite” they will kill an attacker. I know of a crook was attacked by one a few years ago, and the assailant got off 5 shots with the dog on his arm before he passed out from the shock and blood loss. If you go the dog route, don’t fool around with locally trained “police dogs”, they will likely bite your kids or neighbors. Pay the money up front, see someone like Howard Rodriguez in Burbank (he travels around the world, clients have been Wynn, Bo Derek, etc.). It’s the best investment you can make; it stops the attack from occurring altogether in 99.9% of the cases. Not having an attack or armed encounter at all is the best way to keep everyone safe. Guns are great and I have a slew of them, but if I could have paid someone $100,000 to not have my wife and children go through the terror of what happened, I would have done it. If I had had the dog, he would have never made it to the house, and due to gun laws I was unable to shoot him. He turned his back and walked out when he saw I was pointing a gun at him. There is a lot to know. In the heat of the moment you have to know when you can pull the trigger and not, and very few people can make that distinction when under extreme duress, much less hit the target. Just because he’s even in your house, you can’t always kill him. If I had shot him in the back going out I would have gone to jail. Stop the attack from happening in the first place, get a trained dog. My dog follows my wife and kids around the house like a sentry. He is kind and loving to all kids, not just my kids. However, we test him all the time; he’s like some kind of animal from the gates of hell when he’s working. The best home defense is not a gun, its not having the situation ever come up that would need to use it, its deterrence.
 
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fjpikul

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Jan 4, 2006
11,674
Belleville, IL
My house is smaller than yours Dave, do they breed attack Chiuachuas? Maybe a little army of killer little dogs?
 

Empty Pockets

ex-GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Oct 18, 2006
1,362
Washington State
"If I had shot him in the back going out I would have gone to jail" - Gulf'



...that's because someone in retreat is supposedly no longer a threat. (Evidently "the law" hasn't discovered yet that's not always the case.)

You stated, "Due to gun laws, I was unable to shoot him." Now, did you mean you didn't HAVE a shot at him coming AT you? ...'that the only shot you COULD have taken was the one when he was turning tail?

Your's is about the fourth encounter I've heard about wherein the perp was wearing body armor. 'I be thinkin' ' one is a fool if he doesn't initiate defensive action with a head shot these days...:frown :willy
 

Gulf GT

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Feb 9, 2006
1,539
California
My house is smaller than yours Dave, do they breed attack Chiuachuas? Maybe a little army of killer little dogs?


You bet, haven't you heard of a chupacabra!
 

Gulf GT

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Feb 9, 2006
1,539
California
"If I had shot him in the back going out I would have gone to jail" - Gulf'



...that's because someone in retreat is supposedly no longer a threat. (Evidently "the law" hasn't discovered yet that's not always the case.)

You stated, "Due to gun laws, I was unable to shoot him." Now, did you mean you didn't HAVE a shot at him coming AT you? ...'that the only shot you COULD have taken was the one when he was turning tail?

Your's is about the fourth encounter I've heard about wherein the perp was wearing body armor. 'I be thinkin' ' one is a fool if he doesn't initiate defensive action with a head shot these days...:frown :willy


My daughter was asleep in the room he was gaining access to, so I would have had to shoot it out across her bed. And, at the second I entered the room he had already turned his back to me and was heading away. When I saw on the cameras that he was coming in that way I started warning him verbally out loud at the top of my lungs that I was armed and going to kill him. He could easily hear me running in his direction and I missed my shot by less than 2 seconds. If he had been facing me for 1 second I would have dropped him in his tracks. I wasn't shaking and I wasn't scared until an hour after it all happened. I made the best decision of my life in a millisecond as I turned the corner and saw him just turned around.

I then did something that the police criticized me for, and that was to follow him out of the house. But I didn’t care. I could not risk him turning around so I aimed my gun at his head and followed him down the side of the house. When he jumped the fence and ran away I went back in the house.
 
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Empty Pockets

ex-GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Oct 18, 2006
1,362
Washington State
My daughter was asleep in the room he was gaining access to, so I would have had to shoot it out across her bed. And, at the second I entered the room he had already turned his back to me and was heading away. When I saw on the cameras that he was coming in that way I started warning him verbally out loud at the top of my lungs that I was armed and going to kill him. He could easily hear me running in his direction and I missed my shot by less than 2 seconds. If he had been facing me for 1 second I would have dropped him in his tracks. I wasn't shaking and I wasn't scared until an hour after it all happened. I made the best decision of my life in a millisecond as I turned the corner and saw him just turned around.

I then did something that the police criticized me for, and that was to follow him out of the house. But I didn’t care. I could not risk him turning around so I aimed my gun at his head and followed him down the side of the house. When he jumped the fence and ran away I went back in the house.


And my bet is that, because you more or less HAD to let him go, to this day he's NOT BEEN CAUGHT. Right? And God only knows how many OTHERS he's victimized since he hit your place.

The law needs to be changed from protecting the PERP'S butt to protecting the HOMEOWNER'S. (Eg: what if a perp was running AWAY from the homeowner himself and STRAIGHT TOWARD a sleeping child's room, or his wife, OR? TECHNICALLY he can't shoot the perp because he's running away. But, that child (or whomever) COULD potentially become a hostage or worse if he DOESN'T. That's the kind of thing I'm getting at here. And push come to shove I think I'd prefer to be judged by 12 than see myself or a member of my family carried by 6 REGARDLESS of what the letter of the law says. It'd just be sooooo much nicer if the law was clearly, 100% on my side.)
 

BlackICE

GT Owner
Nov 2, 2005
1,416
SF Bay Area in California
I am suprise that these home invaders are using body armour. Seem like they are expecting an armed home owner. I may have to break out the .308 or .223 assuming light armour. I doubt they are wearing ceramic plates. My guess is most don't have grion protection either, so a hip shot, or upper legs are easier to hit and with a shotgun should bring them down for a followup if needed.
 
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Gulf GT

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Feb 9, 2006
1,539
California
And my bet is that, because you more or less HAD to let him go, to this day he's NOT BEEN CAUGHT. Right? And God only knows how many OTHERS he's victimized since he hit your place.

The law needs to be changed from protecting the PERP'S butt to protecting the HOMEOWNER'S. (Eg: what if a perp was running AWAY from the homeowner himself and STRAIGHT TOWARD a sleeping child's room, or his wife, OR? TECHNICALLY he can't shoot the perp because he's running away. But, that child (or whomever) COULD potentially become a hostage or worse if he DOESN'T. That's the kind of thing I'm getting at here. And push come to shove I think I'd prefer to be judged by 12 than see myself or a member of my family carried by 6 REGARDLESS of what the letter of the law says. It'd just be sooooo much nicer if the law was clearly, 100% on my side.)


That's right, to my knowledge he has never been caught. You don't know how hard it was not to shoot. You're in the middle of the biggest adrenalin rush of your life, and all you have is a "green" light on in your head. I was actually surprised I didn't fire one off when I turned the corner. My daughter luckily slept though the whole thing. My wife didn't sleep for months and we had to move.
 

Gulf GT

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Feb 9, 2006
1,539
California
I am suprise that these home invaders are using body armour. Seem like they are expecting an armed home owner. I may have to break out the .308 or .223 assuming light armour. I doubt they are wearing ceramic plates. My guess is most don't have grion protection either, so a hip shot, or upper legs are easier to hit and with a shotgun should bring them down for a followup if needed.

He was dressed in all black right down to his socks and tennis shoes. He wasn't a kid. He walked, briskly, but walked knowing I was right behind him and at that point I was dead quiet. He was a cool customer. I never saw his eyes, just his back. When I go back and look at the footage, it's eerie.

Actually, tonight we’re going to watch the movie Taken.

Oh, about the gun, I have a few around and I grabbed the 22 magnum over the 357 due to the vest. That actually made me even more calm, because I knew I could get off several shots without recoil moving my hands up and likely could get him through the vest if I missed the head shot.
 
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Gulf GT

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Feb 9, 2006
1,539
California
One last note, it was Easter Eve 7 years ago. Seems you can't ever let your guard down. We had just put out Easter baskets, 10:30pm. He was trying to catch me off guard. We were very lucky.

The police brought out a helicopter, and at least 10 cars. They set up a command post in our backyard. It was a big deal. They didn't think he was local, and they didn't think he planned on leaving witnesses. This isn't Detroit, this is a community that has 1 murder every few years, generally family related.
 
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S592R

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Dec 3, 2006
2,800
Gentlemen,

Headshots are the hardest first shot and should not EVER be the point of aim with a pistol at ANY RANGE. A well placed upper torso shot (think between the collar bones here) even with body armor is going to bring a person down due to the blunt force trauma in a very sensitive area. Also if your shot goes high IT WILL BE A FATAL SHOT. A low shot gives you a rising second shot due to recoil. Always and I mean ALWAYS take the higher probability shot over the hollywood shot.

Also, while it seems sporting to announce yourself coming down the hall. NEVER do it until you have your target in sights and have confirmed that perp does not have a cover man or second perp in waiting. According to FBI statistics "ambush robbery" is on the rise in the US and announcing your position only gives it away and makes you a target.

CQB (close quarters battle) done correctly is fast, violent, and controlled. Always engage only when you know you have the advantage in atleast one area. Surprise, overwhelming force, or position. It is also like playing pool ... its a game of angles. taking the best shot while giving your oponent the least favorable angle to return fire.

Gulf, great advice about the dog. Just got a Belgian Malinois myself and he is truly fun... a lot of work ... but also a lot of fun.
 

Empty Pockets

ex-GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Oct 18, 2006
1,362
Washington State
Gentlemen,

Headshots are the hardest first shot and should not EVER be the point of aim with collar bones here) even with body armor is going to bring a person down due to the blunt force trauma in a very sensitive area. Also if your shot goes high IT WILL BE A FATAL SHOT. A low shot gives you a rising second shot due to recoil. Always and I mean ALWAYS take the higher probability shot over the hollywood shot.


Dat's where th' 1st shot with an 870 becomes golden! :biggrin
 

BlackICE

GT Owner
Nov 2, 2005
1,416
SF Bay Area in California
Dat's where th' 1st shot with an 870 becomes golden! :biggrin

We agree on that EP, I use a Moss 500. Pistols are for backup. Armour or not, they are going to feel some hurt.
 

Empty Pockets

ex-GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Oct 18, 2006
1,362
Washington State
Pistols are for backup.


...and packin'...unless you live in Detriot...then the Moss is for packin' too!...sawed off, of course! :lol
 

RV King

GT Owner
Mar 20, 2007
125
Laguna Beach, CA
Sam,
If you really are concerned about your safety, you should pack up your family and get out of LA. Granted there are invasions in nice conservative places where people cling to their Guns and Religion like Texas and South Orange County, but the probability of it happening as compared to LA is statistically a lot less. Now, take the fact that you are up on that big hill, in that big house with that huge two level garage looking down on all the peasants, you will surely be the target when all Hell breaks loose. There is no amount of razor wire or dogs that will keep the dirtbags out.
So come to South Orange County where your $$$ will buy you a modest home, a safe environment for your family, and you can keep your car collection with the RV King!
As an added bonus you will get a view of the ocean instead of the 60 freeway.:biggrin
 

MG 42

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Oct 11, 2006
47
Revolvers

Some things to consider

Long guns (rifles, shotguns) are great firepower but can be awkward in confined spaces such as halls and doorways. Also long guns are fairly easy for an intruder to grab at close range, and the long barrel gives a bad guy plenty of leverage to take the gun away and use against you.

Handguns are handy indoors and can be easily concealed almost anywhere in the house. It is the easiest of all guns to retain in a hand to hand struggle and can be fired from either hand if necessary.

Semi auto pistols can jam. Jams can be hard to clear in a panic situation. Also semi auto pistols use spring fed magazines. Loaded magazines with compressed springs sitting for long periods of time can lose some of their tension and then lack the pressure to reliably feed cartridges causing a jam.

Double action revolvers are very reliable, simple to operate and easy to shoot. They work every time the trigger is pulled, period. They don’t jam. If you come to a bad round simply pull the trigger again and you’re going again. And they are easy to reload.

But whatever you choose become familiar with it and be safe.
 

BlackICE

GT Owner
Nov 2, 2005
1,416
SF Bay Area in California
Right. In CA living in the right location is much safer than the having and knowing how to use the right equipment. CA isn't TX, having to use a gun, right or wrong, is going to cost a plenty in mental anguish and legal troubles. Best to minimize the chance of ever having to use one.

Gulf GT did the right thing and didn't shoot and the perp got away, this is the way it is in CA. In TX he would lucky if he had the time to say his last prayers.
 
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