Track cooling questions

[snaproll]

http://img133.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc03922yy4.jpg

A fabulous heritage is in my garage and I'm considering buying it. I drove it on the street and I fell for it big time.

However, I don't want to buy a car that can't be tracked HARD without overheating. To me, a car like it (its owner, really :biggrin ) deserves at least 2,000 track miles per year.

Given my track experience watching blown 03/04 Cobras as well as a couple of GT's, I don't expect the GT can take lap after lap of punishment. I'd prefer to be wrong on this note, btw. I've done a search and, well, there does not seem to be a ton of experience with track dogs. On one hand, I can't believe that a $175k car can't run 30 minutes worth of hard and hot laps at Gingerman in the sun without a problem. Is this true?

For those with experience, thanks for your input in advance.

Bruce

 

[Neilda]

The car can be tracked with ease - it's an unstressed, high torque engine.

However, as with any car, you'll scrub the tyres (tires) and knacker the brakes.

Tracking cars, as I'm sure you know, is a fast way to wear them out if you're going to do it regularly. Given the rarity and beauty of the GT, it seems a shame to set out to 'punish' it.

I track mine a couple of times a year and this year it's seen Le Mans, Goodwood etc - but I've not taken it to the edge.

You'll need the transaxle cooler fitted. It's a $1500 dollar part from Ford - alternatively there's one available here at a lower price (from memory).

 

[SLF360]

I agree with Neill,
the engine is not a problem. Get the transcooler, and maybe a less hot sport exhaust, and you are off. Issue is 1) the brakes, and 2) the tyres.
It all depends what you want the car for. it is a beauty, and equally a great highway cruiser. I would want to track it once or twice, but if you want a track car that can take the punishment, because it was built to do so, get an Atom or Challenge Stradale. (on the side..)

 

[barondw]

http://img133.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc03922yy4.jpg

However, I don't want to buy a car that can't be tracked HARD without overheating. To me, a car like it (its owner, really :biggrin ) deserves at least 2,000 track miles per year.

Given my track experience watching blown 03/04 Cobras as well as a couple of GT's, I don't expect the GT can take lap after lap of punishment. I'd prefer to be wrong on this note, btw. I've done a search and, well, there does not seem to be a ton of experience with track dogs. On one hand, I can't believe that a $175k car can't run 30 minutes worth of hard and hot laps at Gingerman in the sun without a problem. Is this true?

For those with experience, thanks for your input in advance.

Bruce

There are two issues on the over-heating probelm. First with the stock exhaust the engine will get to hot without question. You need to change to an aftermarket exhaust. I prefer Bob Idas other prefer others.

Second, the trans axle cooler, as Neil mentioned, is also a must whether its track or not. But especially required if tracked even for 1 day no less than 2,000 miles.

If you drive as hard as I think you do the brakes will need replacement after a day or less, thus bring extra brake pad sets. This happens at to me at Watkins Glen.

Other than those correctable issues the car is a blast to drive on the track.

Hoosier race slicks are the way to go for tires.

If you do a search for each of the suggested chanegs you will find many threads. If you need more info send me a PM and I will get back to you.

Dave

 

[B O N Y]

...and contact THE GT GUYS for advance track mods, such as cooling upgrades, suspensions bits and pieces, and other 'secret stuff.'

 

[PL510*Jeff]

Track Day's

I experienced "engine compartment fogging" this summer at the race track.

The coolant pressure cap vented, as designed, after 1-1/2 hours of very hard driving with no stops. Lots of time at or near the rev limiter. It was a fairly warm day for here, mid to high 80's, scared the sh*t out of me when it happened. :eek

Messy to clean up. No damage done to anything. Lost about 2 cups of coolant.

Fuel consumption was 16 gallons for just over 100 track miles. A little less than 6.5 mpg.

Went out for another go a few weeks later. Kept the rev's down a bit, turned on the a/c sooner to run the fans, and no further problems with the coolant temps.

 

[B O N Y]

I experienced "engine compartment fogging" this summer at the race track.

The coolant pressure cap vented, as designed, after 1-1/2 hours of very hard driving with no stops. Lots of time at or near the rev limiter. It was a fairly warm day for here, mid to high 80's, scared the sh*t out of me when it happened. :eek

Messy to clean up. No damage done to anything. Lost about 2 cups of coolant.

Fuel consumption was 16 gallons for just over 100 track miles. A little less than 6.5 mpg.

Went out for another go a few weeks later. Kept the rev's down a bit, turned on the a/c sooner to run the fans, and no further problems with the coolant temps.

question Jeff, stock tune, or modified? Normally when the tune is modified an adjustment is made to get the fans on earlier.

 

[SLF360]

...and contact THE GT GUYS for advance track mods, such as cooling upgrades, suspensions bits and pieces, and other 'secret stuff.'

what secret stuff !??? TALK, BONY, TALK NOW!!!:mad

 

[PL510*Jeff]

Track Day

Bony -
except suspension settings,and brake cooling ducts opened up , my GT is stanley stock.
I'm aware of getting the fan settings to start sooner. Either individually or together. Just haven't gotten to it yet.
At the Rally in Dearborn, I spoke with GT program electrical guy. He mentioned that if the fan "on" stettings are lowered, there may be some electrical load issues to deal with. I personally haven't looked into this. Yet.
--Jeff

 

[PL510*Jeff]

Secret Stuff

SLF360-

if Bony told you about the "secret stuff", it wouldn't be secret anymore.

Like an un-priced wine list. You'll know the secret when you get the bill.:willy

 

[B O N Y]

what secret stuff !??? TALK, BONY, TALK NOW!!!:mad

you got an email...
happy holidays stefan!
calm down, have a clog on me... :rofl

 

[SLF360]

Thanks mate,

Yes, I'll have a Ketel uno on you than !:wink

 

[DRIVEBY]

I have also added ...

1. FFRP Trans axle cooler
2. FFRP Racing exhuast
3. FFRP Long tube headers
4. Functional brake ducts
5. '06 Grill
6. Moton coil overs
7. Hennesey SCT tune from Muscle Motors.

I ran the car stock in 2005 in varying air temperature conditions (55F - 95F) and again in 2006 with approximately the same range of temps at Autobahn CC in Joliet. In both setups, I found (driving hard), the GT ran way too hot if the air temp was anywhere above 80F. Days in the 90'sF were a disaster. The car would jump up to 225F right away and approach 240F within 3 laps. Obviously, On the brink of overheating, I had to quit after 10 minutes with my engine bay steamed up like Jeff's. It's very frustrating, even on 80F days that your cars' temperature is on a knifes edge and you can only run it at 80%. Just as you warm up and get into a groove (start passing GT3's, 360's & Z06's that run all day long) - you have to pull off to cool down. If only it were 60F every track day then the GT wouldn't have a problem (minus tires).

 

[snaproll]

I have also added ...

1. FFRP Trans axle cooler
2. FFRP Racing exhuast
3. FFRP Long tube headers
4. Functional brake ducts
5. '06 Grill
6. Moton coil overs
7. Hennesey SCT tune from Muscle Motors.

I ran the car stock in 2005 in varying air temperature conditions (55F - 95F) and again in 2006 with approximately the same range of temps at Autobahn CC in Joliet. In both setups, I found (driving hard), the GT ran way too hot if the air temp was anywhere above 80F. Days in the 90'sF were a disaster. The car would jump up to 225F right away and approach 240F within 3 laps. Obviously, On the brink of overheating, I had to quit after 10 minutes with my engine bay steamed up like Jeff's. It's very frustrating, even on 80F days that your cars' temperature is on a knifes edge and you can only run it at 80%. Just as you warm up and get into a groove (start passing GT3's, 360's & Z06's that run all day long) - you have to pull off to cool down. If only it were 60F every track day then the GT wouldn't have a problem (minus tires).

Great info guys. I really appreciate it.

Driveby: You know, this is what I'm afraid of. After swapping the exhaust, doing the cooling mods, etc. and then finding that you can't get really get it warmed up on track. I can deal with doing a brake job every day, after all, I've grown up with mustangs on the track. I understand the need for coolers and frankly, with a 3400 lb street car, you're going to have lots compromises. Hopefully, however, you can have fun in a factory engineered sort of way. Reliable laps with friends while excercising a beautiful car that can't be exploited on the street. I mean, the GT goes illegal on the 1-2 shift and gets felonious from there!

Some guys have had issues with the 5.4 mustang R's getting hot -- and they don't have a blower and are mounted in the wind. So, I've done some things to help keep it cool. I still have the factory guages which never vary from "normal." Therefore, I really have no idea what the temps are but I'm confident that it runs cool enough to live a long life and, so far, it's been a marvelous toy.

What I want and would hope for is a car like my Cobra R that can be beaten all day long. Add gas. Beat. Add gas. Beat. Add gas and brakes, then beat. Add tires, gas and park. After about 250 miles at Road America on a Friday, you go back and drink some beer with your buddies at Siebkens. That is paridise for me.

I can spend $85k or less on an 04/05 GT3 or even less on a new Z06 and get this job done but I'd prefer to have a Ford GT if I can make it work. Again, I don't mind feeding it parts, but pulling off the track to cool down is simply not part of my plan for a fun FATT.

Bruce

 

[Fubar]

I overheated mine the first time I tracked it as well. It was June in Texas so ambient heat was 100+ and I ran the whole track in 2nd gear (80mph to 120ish). The guys at the track said I was getting "dirty air" because I was pushing the instructor :usa The fact of the matter is the car wasn't broke in all the way. It had 1500 miles on it and it needed a few more. I have sense added the transmission cooler, license plate extender and Borla exhaust (the exhaust made the most difference) but I haven't taken it to the track again.

I have about 4k miles on it now and it is a much smother feeling car. If I had more track experience I am sure I wouldn't have made the car work as hard but it was fun chasing down the instructors Z06.

 

[DRIVEBY]

Unfortunately, that's the way it is. I spoke with the lead engineer at the GT Rally in Dearborn this past summer and he concurred there was a big heat issue when tracking the car. He said the only way around it was to turn it into a full-time track car (i.e. ditch the airconditioning compressor, etc.). The supercharger puts out an extreme amount of heat, that just the way it goes and we have to live with it and that sucks for a supercar. If anybody can offer up a solution to this heat problem while still managing to keep the car daily driveable, I and probably 20 others are all ears.

 

[californiacuda]

water only in he radiator and intercooler, absorbs and dissapates heat much better than antifreeze/coolant.

 

[B O N Y]

water wetter

I have been using it in other cars for years. I am a believer, but lots of folks think it is hogwash... any comments?

 

[barondw]

I have been using it in other cars for years. I am a believer, but lots of folks think it is hogwash... any comments?

Yes it works but not in the NorthEast with freezing temperatures.

Dave

 

[B O N Y]

Yes it works but not in the NorthEast with freezing temperatures.

Dave

I should have added, remove it during winter months. Keep forgetting not everyone had to run their air today, hit about 68 degrees today, crystal clear day, bit brisk in the morning when I took my hot tub.:lol