License plate stand off....

[MAD IN NC]

Went to the hardware store today with the intention of placing a space between the license plate and the rear valance of the GT (ie. beats drilling holes in the license plate like SuperB).

Picked up 3/4 aluminum spaceers and the bolts - no big deal. Cost $3.96. Mounted the plate with the four extensions and went for a ~10 mile drive down the freeway to a resturant. When I arrived I checked the plate to find out it was HOT! to the point where you could only keep your hands on it for a few seconds, if that.

Returned home, backed the car in the garage, lifted the clamshell and can attest to the fact that the engine compartment was truly much cooler but the license plate frame and surrounding area was as first encountered, HOT!

It's been twenty minutes now and the license plate lights and even the license plate is still way to hot to be called normal temperature. I can see why a plastic frame on a track would melt. Long term fix is defintely an Ida or Accufab exhaust but for now the question is:

1/ Has anybody else experienced the same effect with stock muffler and license plate standoff's?
2/ if you have the standoffs - are the smaller than 3/4?

 

[Dr Robert Harms]

Stand Offs

Go to www.mcmaster.com ----Mc Master Carr Supply and do a search on stand offs--they have 4 pages of any type you could possibly need

 

[Spirit]

Plate Spacers

Mike,

Have a black metal license plate holder/frame.

Still have the stock exhaust system.

Made up spacers from aluminum [the aluminum will dissipate heat better than steel] round stock that are 1” dia x 1/2” thick with a 3/8” dia hole through them.

Used the stock license plate mounting bolts [they are plenty long enough].

Did this before trip to Detroit.

No vent warping to date; and I do run it up on the RPM’s [5th gear a lot of the way up & back on the trip].

This set up looks completely stock [if I don’t point it out to anyone, they do not know the spacers are there].

Net effect is that the machine looks stock, and yet it does lower the under clam-shell temperatures [have not taken any quantitative readings, just touch & feel].

The plate and frame still get hot to the touch, but seem to be a less than before the spacers were added.

Am still going to replace the exhaust system so as to gain improvement in both temperatures and sound, as well possibly a little more horsepower - even though horsepower is not a real goal [the machine in it’s stock form is much more capable than the driver].

Fred

 

[BigsGT]

Mad, I was going to ask if you had checked the temp of the plate prior to installing the spacers? I drove to the store earlier and a half hour after I got back I started taking my plate off to install the spacers and the plate and metal frame were still damned hot! I think we have an optical pyrometer at the shop, and as I haven't installed the spacers yet I'll try and get some imperical numbers.

 

[MAD IN NC]

Thanks Spirit and BigsGT,

I didn't really check the heat before hand. I will get a meter next week end and try with and without spacers. I need to also check the surrounding area such as the license plate lights before and after - the whole idea was to remove the heat - not melt other components......

 

[fjpikul]

Bigs, that would be great. Will that give exact numbers or just a general range?

 

[BigsGT]

It's precise so long as you're close to the part you want to measure. I've used it before to check brake temps.

 

[EasyEric]

I bought some 1/2 inch length spacers from Lowe's. Seems to do the trick.

Eric

 

[AZGT]

In a couple of days I can give it a try before and after. I have one of the "point and shoot" temperature gauges, so will be easy to check.

Right now I do see the plate is hot (had been in from a ride about 15 minutes ago). Exhaust was still around 165, plate around 135.

I'll do some good checks of various points and do a post of the results.

 

[AZGT]

Happy Plate

Well, I tried, but not good information about the plate idea, but other interesting findings.

ACE Hardware had some nylon spacers that I used. 1/2 inch thick, right hole size, and the original screws do work. 25 cents each.

OK, so I went around the block twice - 8 miles each time (big block). I don't think this is a good test. I think someone needs to go down a flat stretch for 30 minutes, do the plate change, then go another 30 minutes. It seems on my runs the heat just kept building - I think the car would need to go for a while to get everything to its normal temperature and to hold a constant temperature.

The biggest surprise to me was how cool the air intake was (the big black box that says Ford - probably because of the outside air) and how cool the muffler itself was. Also how hot the cats are.

The test was done with the laser pointer temperature gauge.

Anway, here are the results.

FIRST RUN (before plate spacing)

Water temp gauge: first line under 200
bulk head glass: 126
valve cover: 131
air box: 113
muffler: 146
cats: 294
license plate: 146
exhaust tips: 260

SECOND RUN (after plate spacing)

Water temp gauge: first line over 200
bulk head glass: 137
valve cover: 143
air box: 117
muffler: 150
cats: 306
license plate: 150
exhaust tips: 265

THIRD RUN (after plate spacing and my daughter / recorder wanted to go faster :thumbsup )

Water temp gauge: right at 200
bulk head glass: 141
valve cover: 155
air box: 129
muffler: 210
cats: 340
license plate: 142
exhaust tips: 324

So there you have it.

Logically, the plate spacer makes sense since it does allow air to flow by, but I guess that could make it hotter since hot air IS flowing by.

I had heard that there is insulation inside the muffler to help keep it cool. Seems from the numbers that it is true, but not sure.

Then the guestion is if the muffler is insulated and the various X-pipes are not, would the unshielded heat offset the increased air flow?

I think the only way to solve the temperature issue is with some type of legit test wth constant variables (like on a dyno with fans). The driving tests are a little too variable - even my car is not consistent in temperature and runs between 180 and 210 - frequently changing based on the elevation, temperature, and my foot.

 

[BigsGT]

Here's my very unscientific results to compare to Larry's:

Before spacers:
Outside air temp = 87; time 5:45pm
Rear plate =93 (The sun was shining on it in the open garage) Ran the car for 30 minutes, temp gauge read 190

Using a laser non-contact temp gauge:
Plate =140
Closed clamshell = 108
Valve covers (immediately after opening the clamshell = 151

I left the clamshelll open and ate dinner, messed around, installed the spacers and two hours later it was 7:45 and the outside air temp was 83
Ran the car for 30 minutes and the temp gauge read 190
Took the same readings from the same distance in the same locations:
Plate =114
Closed Clamshell = 92
Valve Covers (immediately after opening the clamshell) = 152

These results and the feel of the heat on my skin makes me believe that spacing the license plate does make a difference in engine bay temps. I too would like to see something more scientific, but face it, it's not that big a deal, unless your plate frame or scoop inserts are melting! I almost always raise the clamshell after a drive and only have 1,800 miles on mine so it hasn't been an issue.

To make my spacers I bought a 4 foot length of 1/2"aluminum tube, 1/16 wall and I had the guys in my shop part it off in 3/8" lengths. this length allowed me to use the bolts that came with my MGW billet frame, which have a cool anti-theft head. If you had longer bolts you could make the spacers longer.

I have fat fingers and had a tough time getting the last two spacers in and lined up. I dont' know if the bolts are centered in the spacer since the ID of the spacer is bigger than the bolt. My partner recommended buying brass bushings which are available in any ID, OD and length for about 40 cents apiece. I'm going to go with these next as having the OD slightly bigger than the bolt will allow it to align itself on the mounting areas on the car.

For anyone interested, I had the shop cut up the rest of the tube and I now have 14 sets of the spacers I will send you if you just PM me your address. First come first serve. I may not get any takers since I'm going with the brass bushings and at that cheap price I don't know why anyone would take another route. but I have them and will send them for free if anyone wants them. I'll post some pics of the spacers and start another thread tomorrow.

Larry I'd be afraid the nylon spacers would melt!

Biggs

 

[AZGT]

Larry I'd be afraid the nylon pacers would melt!

Thanks. I'll watch them - since they are 1/2 inch thick, I am not too worried, but I will keep my eye on them.

 

[Bart Carter]

How about some common round AL stock? Buy the diameter you want, cut to length and drill the hole to size. I use Aircraft Spruce and McMaster-Carr for items like this.

 

[BigsGT]

I was gonna do that but the drilling was more of a hassle than just buying the exact size bushing you want for .40...

The aluminum tube was a quick fix.

 

[sharp33]

Larry I'd be afraid the nylon spacers would melt!

Biggs

I started a thread quite a while ago about spacing out the license plate frame to allow air to escape out the back as the design clearly calls for. Using what I had on hand, I used nylon spacers cut to the maximum length the standard hardware would accept. Since then I've put 2500 miles on the car with one track event. I've also been caught in horrendous traffice at the Canadian/US border with temps soaring. Out of curiosity I pulled the plate off last night to see if anything was melting. So far, no sign of any damage or even discoloration. Having said that, I plan on upgrading to stainless steel fasteners and spacers. :biggrin

 

[eshrink]

AZGT (and everyone):

For reasons unclear, ACE Hardware (locally) has their metal stand-offs in a different area of the store than the nylon units.

If you do not find them, merely yell "WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE, I COULD JUST GO AHEAD AND DETONATE THIS!"

This is a very reliable way of having them (and others) assist you.

Hope that is helpful.

- doc

 

[SuperB]

I didn't drill holes in my license plate, that was just a joke :biggrin

How about if a wind power turbine is installed near the intakes, so as you hit the gas, the wind winds them up, they keep spinning long after you stop and draw fresh air in. :biggrin The preceeding was a paid joke, sponsored by SuperB

 

[Spirit]

I started a thread quite a while ago about spacing out the license plate frame to allow air to escape out the back as the design clearly calls for. Using what I had on hand, I used nylon spacers cut to the maximum length the standard hardware would accept. Since then I've put 2500 miles on the car with one track event. I've also been caught in horrendous traffice at the Canadian/US border with temps soaring. Out of curiosity I pulled the plate off last night to see if anything was melting. So far, no sign of any damage or even discoloration. Having said that, I plan on upgrading to stainless steel fasteners and spacers. :biggrin

Aluminum will not rust, distort, degrate due to UV, and disipates heat better than any of those other materials being talked about for this application. IMHO it is the only logical choice for GT license plate spacers.:cheers

 

[BigsGT]

Aluminum will not rust, distort, degrate due to UV, and disipates heat better than any of those other materials being talked about for this application. IMHO it is the only logical choice for GT license plate spacers.:cheers

... Brought to you by the Aluminum Manufacturers Association. :lol

 

[Spirit]

Aluminum Is Faster!

... Brought to you by the Aluminum Manufacturers Association. :lol

Bigs,
I am glad to hear you are an aluminum supporter.:bow
Aluminum has the advantage.
Everyone knows that it makes things go faster than Nylons or Steels or Brass.:biggrin
Kind ‘a like Red Heads are faster than Blondes or Brunettes.:wink

So, I guess that makes our cars faster than those using other materials in this application.:cheers