Hans Stuck takes us to school!


Ruff Porsche, comments..

Guys,

that is just an exeptionally bad and untrained driver ! Doesn't know how to drive a fast line, jerks around the wheel like in a Rallye car, and would never, never win a race because he kills the tyres with his constant oversteer and rubbing...
I am sure one can drive the Ruff cleaner and faster, respecting the limits and having had some decent driver training first of all, before pretending to be Niki Lauda :thumbsdow :thumbsdow :thumbsdow

He (as all here and else) should simply try the following (SLF's frequent lection one), and limit himself to the only golden four phases in sequence:

the Doctors' prescription goes as follows
There are only four stages (& nothing else for a fast lap, unless car to car action requires deviation)
1.stage: Full throttle,
2. stage (end of straight): full brakes to reduce to max physical allowable curve speed),
3. stage (first part of curve): overstand slightly, then closing the steering wheel to steer in gradually to pivot point of curve),
4. stage : opening the steering wheel and as of then start to reaccelerate to exit point on curbs, to start again with phase 1. Ain't rocket science, but pure physics... (PS: once opening and accelerating, never reclose again, or you WILL spin, unless you are really slower than you should, i.e. not really on the edge.. )
(And start this foursome over and over again, finding the fastlane around the track- hence not always as tight as possible around the bends, but maximizing the speed at curveexit and slingshot with d(inertia)/dt derivative around the ideal line...)

Nothing gets you around any track in the world faster, period..

Is racetrack driving really difficult !? Nope, just learn your stuff first...

Dr. Laux

PS: Comments please, if you want to start a discussion :banana
 
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stefan, your on the money. as a former porsche 930 owner i agree with your comments of sawing the wheel.

as you well know the 'ring is open to the public and must be the most challenging course out there. a couple of gents that posted on www.ferrarichat.com went out for a spin last year and very sadly lost their lives. it doesn't surprise me to see amateur video and driving.
 
and now for the porsche GT2......

I don't know who the driver is here, but like Hans, he too is very smooth...

www.edo-competition.net/movies/nordschleife_gt2rs.wmv
 
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Nice one!

I like how he launches it out of the Karussell, into the apex of the next corner. From what I hear, that is the way to do that corner.
 
Vic said:
Nice one!

I like how he launches it out of the Karussell, into the apex of the next corner. From what I hear, that is the way to do that corner.
Click to expand...

This is the guy:
http://www.k300performance.co.uk/kw-suspension-at-the-Nurburgring.htm

"On Thursday 4th August 2005, driver Patrick Simon and the Edo Competition 996 topped it all. The Donkervoorts spectacular record was broken after less than one year. With a 7.15.63 lap."
 
good driving

Vic said:
Nice one!

I like how he launches it out of the Karussell, into the apex of the next corner. From what I hear, that is the way to do that corner.
Click to expand...


Now that is a real smooth, correct trajectory performance. And, doesn't look difficult, does it ? However, I feel from watching Stuck was faster on the straights... maybe someone speeded something up in that piece of filming...? :eek I'll try to watch both on two computers side by side, but am pretty sure...
 
The Ruff Yellow Bird Clip!!!!

Stefan,
He is mastering that RUFF like a pro.

The reason for his sawing at the wheel is due to the fact that the car is set up to be quite oversteery on turn-in, and that makes the rearend VERY nervous.

To be on top of the car and avoid a spin the driver is doing the sawing to know when the rear will let go (which is pretty much all the time).

I know from experience that a rearengine Porsche can be very understeering, but when off the throttle, the engine brake will help swing the rear-end out, and he’s using that to the full effect.

Again this driver is also showing off for the camera, and if it was some sort of race, I’m sure he would be less aggressive. But a guy who is able to go sideways from turn-in to exit through all the hairpins, must know what he’s doing…

Also the laptime proves that he can drive, I think the clip is from the early 80’, and at that time no production car went quicker around The Ring.

Show some respect boys!!!
 
Ruf

First of all,
it is called Ruf, not Ruff..
second, he still drives it like a rallye car. When i want to kill off the worn tyres of my stradale, we also whip them then on purpose sawing the wheel to get to do entire big curves in full oversteer (mind you, midengines, hard to keep then, harder than a backengined Porsche). Looks like a drift challenge then, expen sive last minutes of P zeros when they come to an end... But that is not the way to drive a fast lap on Nuerburgring, nor proper educated trackstyle (as you will know, racing yourself) - thats all I meant. :thumbsup
 
Stefan,
First of all,
It is called Nurburgring, not Nuerburgring..:-)

I'm not trying to start a war here, all I'm saying is that I disagree with you... even though I can't spell RUF.

My piont was also that he was showing off, rather than wanting to put in a laptime as quick a possible.

Your verdict as to call the Ruf driver "Stefan Roser" quote: "an exeptionally bad and untrained driver" I think is a wrong call on your behalf and I think that surfing the net, you will find many people would also diagree with you.

www.xtremesystems.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-58359.html

The best comment that really sums it up comes here:

This is video is of RUF's test driver Stefan Roser in the RUF CTR Yellowbird, going around the Nurburgring, in ~8 minutes. If you know anything about the Nurburgring, 8 minutes is insanely fast around the track. He's definitely in control at all times, as he is a very well respected driver. I mean he's RUF's test driver for chrissakes. I read once someone asked him why he drove like he did, and that it isn't the fastest way through a corner. His reply was something like "When you make love, you are not always trying to make babies".
:lol


Those are just a couple of the good ones... go Google on his name, and all sorts of great stuff comes up...

Peace :cheers :thumbsup
 
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Just found another one:

He is in control all time, and his 'twitchy input' is what keeps his style superb. His lines are also excellent. There is a certain angle of slip that is the fastest way through a corner, depending on each corner, and although the 911 might go above those limits sometimes, you must also take into account the fact that it is in these cases he uses the sliding of the car to do his slowing down, rather than braking early. This is one of the best drivers in the world, setting one of the fastest times ever on Nurburgring.

:thumbsup
 
Derek Bell does it in 6min 41sec

Takes forever to load but is worth the wait:
http://xfer.gofastvideo.com/gallery/getitem/882/1/Nurburgring-956.mov

:thumbsup
 
Couldn't download that one! :(
 
Peace ok !

101,

ok, ok, peace then. Still, I won't have to agree that he did a great drive then (cause it wasn't), must be able to do one for sure given the credentials, and certainly wasn't trying to make babies with this lap.

However, it is called Nuerburgring... ue meaning u with two dots above, the german ue... don't translate well in English language :lol

stefan
 

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Vic said:
Couldn't download that one! :(
Click to expand...
just left-click and leave the window open for a while, and then the clip will start...
 
Here's another guy "sawing" at the wheel in a 340 HP Toyota Surpa...: HERE
NOT trying to make babies, just having fun at a track day...

:lol
 
some respect

one of 101 said:
Stefan,
He is mastering that RUFF like a pro.

The reason for his sawing at the wheel is due to the fact that the car is set up to be quite oversteery on turn-in, and that makes the rearend VERY nervous.

To be on top of the car and avoid a spin the driver is doing the sawing to know when the rear will let go (which is pretty much all the time).

I know from experience that a rearengine Porsche can be very understeering, but when off the throttle, the engine brake will help swing the rear-end out, and he’s using that to the full effect.

Again this driver is also showing off for the camera, and if it was some sort of race, I’m sure he would be less aggressive. But a guy who is able to go sideways from turn-in to exit through all the hairpins, must know what he’s doing…

Also the laptime proves that he can drive, I think the clip is from the early 80’, and at that time no production car went quicker around The Ring.

Show some respect boys!!!
Click to expand...


sure, you are right, iwas way too hard to say ' just a bad driver and stuff'.. but I think there is way too much glorification of less than perfect drives coming on the web, all it takes is someone driving on the limit, and immediately that is a hero driver. Roser sure is a capable driver, but I just felt the driving style is not to be copied, hence reacted a bit harsh, and he is driving really not like a pro, that round.
With the Ferraris, we frequently work with the telemetry and analyse all details like individual wheelspeed in curves, pedal positions, g-force and all kind of other details coming from setup variations and drive style, and believe me,
when you overlay one of your rounds to another, it is sometimes very surprising to see how hugely different one of a fast lap compares to another. Steady rythm capabilities not for no reason is one thing a driver needs to demonstrate to get a FIA race drivers license.. Particular people just starting to drive real race cars for the first time get their eyes opened wide. Also, if telemetry is not available for analysis, I recommend dearest to have a driving trainer sit next to you timing and then commenting the drive afterwards, I guess that should also be available on the US tracks. Brings me to another thought, how about arranging some GT driving school weekend !? Would be very interesting to see a real pro handle your car around a track on the edge, and observe and learn. Good fun !
 
101:

.. in case you want to verify the writing on the wall


www.nuerburgring.de/

Nürburgring und Nordschleife :lol :lol
 
A few great shots from The Ring

 
my kind of taxi :biggrin
 
bony said:
my kind of taxi :biggrin
Click to expand...
I'm just waiting for Stefan to call the sideway driver (prob. Sabine) for an amature who is not driving the correct racing-line...

:ack

Just kiddin Stefan... Don't kill me
PS: Anyways you got me in the end on the "ue" Vs. "u" battle... ha ha ha
 
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