GT-40 & 05' Ford GT Facts

[FordGTGuy]

Lets share and maybe correct some of the knowledge we know.

1. Ford tried to buy Ferrari International Racing Program not Ferrari itself.

2. It was Henry Ford II girlfriend(Italian) who became the last push to start the GT-40 program when she said a Ford would never beat a Ferrari at racing.

3. GT-40 MK-II and MK-IV used a Nascar 427.

4. GT-40 design came partly from the Mustang Concept.

5. The Lamborghini Miura design was inspired by the GT-40.

6. The Closest Ferrari(4th place) to the GT-40s in 66' 1-2-3 Vic. at 24hrs of LeMans was 125+miles behind.

7. During 66' the GT-40 the was infront of the other two GT-40s had a 2+ lap lead infront of the GT-40s behind it and was told to slow down so they could have a 1-2-3 Vic.

8. After the 1-2-3 Vic. the GT-40 that crossed the finish line first wasn't given 1st place, this is because the winner is not determined by actually place but the amount of distance traveled, so the GT-40 with the most distance was given first.

9. When the GT-40 MK-I went to Daytona it broke almost every record set.

10. The GT-40 set the fastest lap recorded on LeMans although it most likely still doesn't stand at this time.

11. The GT-40 is the first car to ever break 200 mph at LeMans.

12. The GT-40 broke the Ferrari winning streak in 66'.

13. The GT-40 is one of the only cars ever referred to as being a legend by all car enthusiasts(sp?).

14. The GT-40 was the first american win at LeMans.

15. The GT-40 MK-IV used advanced materials and aerodynamic design from modern(at the time) jets.

16. A chassis version of the GT-40 was referred to as the J car.

17. The GTX1 is not a new concept and the first of its kind was made in the 60's along side the J car.

18. The GT-40 can still keep up with and surpass modern age cars.

05' Ford GT

1. The base of the 05' Ford GT is the GT-40 MK-II.

2. It was the fastest car to have ever been made by Ford(from concept to Production)(6 months).

more later.

 

[B O N Y]

opps... no time to reply to all points, but...

1. Ford wanted to by all of Ferrari, when Enzo recvd. negative feedback from countrymen about selling to a foreign company and learned he would not have total control of the race team, he told Ford "it has been nice knowing you."
2. The first GT's ran 289's which are small blocks.
3. Eric Broadley is the father of the GT's and he sold the design concept.
4. On the famous finish fiasco I think the three cars where on the same lap but the finish was determined by their grid position, thus the cars that started further back on the grid were determined to have travelled further and were awarded finishing places accordingly.
...hows that for a start??

 

[B O N Y]

opps... no time to reply to all points, but...

1. Ford wanted to buy all of Ferrari, when Enzo recvd. negative feedback from countrymen about selling to a foreign company and learned he would not have total control of the race team, he told Ford "it has been nice knowing you."
2. The first GT's ran 289's which are small blocks.
3. Eric Broadley is the father of the GT's and he sold the design concept.
4. On the famous finish fiasco I think the three cars where on the same lap but the finish was determined by their grid position, thus the cars that started further back on the grid were determined to have travelled further and were awarded finishing places accordingly.
...hows that for a start??

 

[B O N Y]

No GT ever had a cammer SOHC engine...nope

 

[B O N Y]

Didn't Briggs Cunigham win Leman's?

There never was a big block GT40 roadster but there was a small block version.

Why don't you post these questions on the GT40 Forum, those guys are experts.

 

[FordGTGuy]

The Mark III was not the J car.

was it the MK-IV?

 

[barondw]

Didn't Briggs Cunigham win Leman's?

There never was a big block GT40 roadster but there was a small block version.

Why don't you post these questions on the GT40 Forum, those guys are experts.

Briggs Cunningham never won LeMans racing his own cars or Jaguars or anything else.

Dave

 

[B O N Y]

Center,.... thanks, Cunnigham's live axle Vettes finished in the top ten overall. His musuem is very worthwhile. One of the live axle Vettes is coming up for auction shortly. The late Chip (?) who ran Carlisle has another one.

 

[mardyn]

The same GT40... #1075 won Lemans in '68 & '69 with a small block. :biggrin

mardyn

 

[50 BMG]

You can find most of this information and a lot more in the 1997 Shelby registry.

3. GT-40 MK-II and MK-IV used a Nascar 427.

Wanna guess why they stopped using 427's?

5. The Lamborghini Miura design was inspired by the GT-40.

13. The GT-40 is one of the only cars ever referred to as being a legend by all car enthusiasts(sp?).

17. The GTX1 is not a new concept and the first of its kind was made in the 60's along side the J car.

5. Just about every mid engine racing car made after the GT-40 is based off of it.

13. The J car is referred to as "legendary" because it won every race it entered. I am only aware of 2 other cars that have ever done this: The McLaren M8B in the 1969 Can-Am season and the Mercedes CLK-LM in the 1998 FIA GT championship.

17. Bruce McLaren created the original GT-40 you are referring to. The car was cutup and is still buried under a Los Angeles apartment complex.

05' Ford GT

1. The base of the 05' Ford GT is the GT-40 MK-II.

I'd say the MK1B is the base. The MK2's look noticably different...

2. The first GT's ran 289's which are small blocks.

The first GT40 with a P designation had a 255 indy engine.

The Mark III was a version of the Mk I made for street legal use, with quad headlights in higher fenders, a center-mounted shifter, longer tail, etc. I think they made 7.

I think the J car was a development car for the Mk IV, but crashed during testing, killing Ken Miles.

IIRC, the Mark III was the euro version. They did make 7 of them.

Many MK I road cars (35 or so?) were made. Interestingly, only 2 of them originally had the same color exterior paint.

The J car refers to the 10 or 12 (depending on who you ask) J class cars campaigned in 1967. They have serial numbers J1-J12.

The same GT40... #1075 won Lemans in '68 & '69 with a small block. :biggrin

mardyn

Sam Walton owns P/1075. The most successful driver ever at LeMans won his first 24 hour race there in 1969 in that car. At the same time, he defeated the all powerful (fanboy fodder) 917 with a 6 year old dinosaur car.

 

[SteveA]

As I understand it was Enzo's dislike of Indy (0) style racing and Fords plan to have Ferrari race there was the final nail.
I believe that the Targa top GT40 was made for and raced in the Italian annual Targa Florial (sp).
Ken Miles was killed testing tires (Goodyears) in a (I think) J car. He was also the driver that was told to slow down for the photo opp. and was bumped to second. I was told many years ago by a very big name in Ford racing that Ford could of argued and probably had that overturned but liked how the new order turned out (politics/Shelby).
The first motor in a GT was the 260 cu in.
The car was first underdesign in 59 and was a product of Lola. After the 66 win Enzo popped off with "Ford still did not beat me, Lola did". Thus the birth of the J car program. All Ford, all US R&d and American drivers.
Dan Gurney told me it was the only time in the history of motor sports that there has truly been no budget.
A moral? Don't piss off Henry ll (or George W for that matter)

 

[50 BMG]

Ken Miles was killed testing tires (Goodyears) in a (I think) J car. He was also the driver that was told to slow down for the photo opp. and was bumped to second. I was told many yeard ago by a very big name in Ford racing that Ford could of argued and probably had that overturned but liked how the new order turned out (politics/Shelby).

Too bad they didn't. He would have been the first person to "officially" win Sebring, Daytona and LeMans all in the same year.

The first motor in a GT was the 260 cu in.

I'll take your word for it, I couldn't remember exactly. I was a POS anyways as was 90% of the car when Ford took it off Broadley's hands.

Dan Gurney told me it was the only time in the history of motor sports that there has truly been no budget.

I've heard that too. Rumor is that Ford spent over 250 million on the GT program from inception until 1967 season ended...that is obviously -billions- in modern day money.

 

[FordGTGuy]

exactly why I started this thread thanks for your input guys.

 

[SteveA]

As I understand Ford was impatient with the first results out of England so it split the program into 3 teams.
The first cars shipped to Shelby had the 260 in them and he pulled them right away for the 289 he was installing in the Cobra. Shelby headed the west coast team and H/M out of Texas the third. The only rule was when one team found a performance increase it had to share it with the other two.

 

[mardyn]

A little off topic but...

Would anyone care to speculate what #1075 might be worth today? I'd think you could probably purchase a dozen or so new GTs without too much trouble for that kinda dough...

mardyn

 

[SteveA]

The 427 was "outlawed" by lowering the total cu in allowed after the MklV's and Mkll proved to be so fast and didn't break. (I know I'm sounding like a name dropper, sorry) but I herd Max Kelly, crew chief for the black #2 66' winner say that the motor was dynoed before and after the 24hrs with a loss of only 5 hp. 495 to 490.
Ferrari knew they would have a hard time competing with Ford in endurance racing if Ford could run huge detuned cu in motors...politics.

On another note, don't our cars look clean and fresh for a design that is 45yrs + old? .......Like a great song the car is timeless....

 

[SteveA]

A little off topic but...

Would anyone care to speculate what #1075 might be worth today? I'd think you could probably purchase a dozen or so new GTs without too much trouble for that kinda dough...

mardyn

Good question, also is it worth more than the 67 MklV of Gurney and Aj fame?

 

[B O N Y]

Sam Walton owns P/1075. The most successful driver ever at LeMans won his first 24 hour race there in 1969 in that car. At the same time, he defeated the all powerful (fanboy fodder) 917 with a 6 year old dinosaur car.[/QUOTE]

not to be picky, Sam is dead, Rob the chairman of Walmart owns the car and many others, he is an excellent vintage racer. :biggrin

 

[B O N Y]

Good question, also is it worth more than the 67 MklV of Gurney and Aj fame?

Wildass guess $10million... edited after reconsideration
Note: No Ferrari GTO has traded at auction for several years, most now are said to be worth $7m to $10m+ Pretty lofty air up there, out of my league.

 

[50 BMG]

A dozen new GT's? If new GT's are valued at 150K, you could have 55 of them for what I believe would be the opening bid for that car at 7 million. 1075 is worth more than any 250 GTO Ferrari IMO...not that it matters knowing that particular collection, I doubt it will be leaving that family during my lifetime.

P/1075 is probably (in fact I can almost guarantee it) the most valuable Ford in existence, not only cause it's 1 of only 2 cars to win Lemans twice, but everything it stands for in winning, the rise of the Wyer team, Gulf, design history, public perception etc. etc.

J-5 would be a far off second. The only race history that car had was LeMans and possibly sebring in 1967.