Why doesnt Lambo have a Formula 1 team/car?


Kayvan

Kayvan

GT Owner
Jul 13, 2006
4,782
http://www.grandprix.com/gpe/eng-lambo.html

Seems like VW/Audi could afford it?
 
'Knee jerk guess? They sell everything they make now. Why would there be a need? What would be gained "bottom line" wise? :shrug
 
Maybe after the contract with Ferrari cancels "Force India" will use Lamborghini. That would be interesting.
 
Uhhhh... because it was a dismal failure. The engines didn't last and they didn't want to become a joke. It was making it harder to sell their street cars, as they had no credibility like Ferrari. When your sponsored team is dead last in almost every race, it's like selling "Minardi sports cars". Very very bad for your image. At least that's why they really left Formula 1 in the early 90's and haven't been back. Now most people have forgotten that their street cars were really slow on a race track. Sure look pretty though just sitting there. Owned by someone with deep pockets today, but they would still get their ass kicked by Ferrari for years if they got in now, and it would once again hurt their sales of street cars.
 
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Whats the newest team?

Is in it just pay to play? All talent has a price...cant they buy their way in?
 
Toyota has had the biggest budget in Formula 1 for several years now and they're not even close to winning yet. It might take them 10 years to be a real winner. To get a new program "up to speed" takes years and years. Teams don't give away their information about how they do it, and it's always a moving target. The combination of improving technology that jumps up every year along with catching up to the other teams makes it extremely difficult no matter how much money you thow at it.

As an example, Toyota will sell cars even if they're a loser in Formula 1. Lamborghini is different. They sell only "fast sports cars". If they spent 10 years losing badly head to head with Ferrari, it could kill their whole company because their "street" cars will be confirmed as "posers" at that point.
 
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Gulf GT said:
Toyota has had the biggest budget in Formula 1 for several years now and they're not even close to winning yet. It might take them 10 years to be a real winner. To get a new program "up to speed" takes years and years. Teams don't give away their information about how they do it, and it's always a moving target. The combination of improving technology that jumps up every year along with catching up to the other teams makes it extremely difficult no matter how much money you thow at it.

As an example, Toyota will sell cars even if they're a loser in Formula 1. Lamborghini is different. They sell only "fast sports cars". If they spent 10 years losing badly head to head with Ferrari, it could kill their whole company because their "street" cars will be confirmed as "posers" at that point.
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Very nice answers Gulf... very informative and logical points. Thank you.
 
Got it.
 
I don't think it would be a failure now that Audi and Lambo have shared technology. The R8 is a killer ride, and it's a true testament to what happens when these companies came together. It's very similar to my company which I started in 1991 buildin high performance PCs - we were acquired by HP last year and the result is HP Blackbird, one of the most compelling performance PCs of its kind.
 
rsvdhd said:
I don't think it would be a failure now that Audi and Lambo have shared technology. The R8 is a killer ride, and it's a true testament to what happens when these companies came together. It's very similar to my company which I started in 1991 buildin high performance PCs - we were acquired by HP last year and the result is HP Blackbird, one of the most compelling performance PCs of its kind.
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Building a great streetcar or PC is extremely easy compared to winning in Formula 1. If it were that easy, lots of folks would have plunked down their money to win. It's like comparing the technology needed to separate yourself from the competition in hundredths of seconds over a 3 mile coarse to making better screens and nice seats to sit in. No product market will ever be competed on with such miniscule margins of victory. Comparing PC's against each other in today’s market is like comparing F1 cars in 1 minute intervals instead of milliseconds. That’s what makes F1 so special. The highest technological levels of any sport ever, or product for that matter. Toss in the human element and it's a complete package.

Even the human element has become almost other worldly. Michael Schumacher and David Coulthard have resting heart rates of 40, that's right 40. During a race their heart rates can soar to 200+ beats per minute then back to 48 in less than 5 minutes. Try that on your next treadmill test. Add to that the incredible stress of many G’s of force on their heads and necks for almost 2 hours straight. Superhuman cars driven by superhuman beings. Without doubt the greatest sport of our time. No, it is most certainly not like building a PC or a great street car.
 
Gulf GT said:
Uhhhh... because it was a dismal failure. The engines didn't last and they didn't want to become a joke. It was making it harder to sell their street cars, as they had no credibility like Ferrari. When your sponsored team is dead last in almost every race, it's like selling "Minardi sports cars". Very very bad for your image. At least that's why they really left Formula 1 in the early 90's and haven't been back. Now most people have forgotten that their street cars were really slow on a race track. Sure look pretty though just sitting there. Owned by someone with deep pockets today, but they would still get their ass kicked by Ferrari for years if they got in now, and it would once again hurt their sales of street cars.
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http://www.elitelexus.com/1990.html
Lamborghini was finishing races, and had respectable points for a new engine manufacturer... when the engine later went to worse chassis, the cars performed worse... go figure ;) But the engine's weren't unreliable... in fact, a big reason Lambo went to F1 was because the Ferrari F1 engine builder left Ferrari for Lamborghini.

A Lola Lamborghini F1 is a 'priced to sell' car if you can ever find one ;)
 
I agree on all.

Just think at the supercar level, you need racing pedigree.

Almost every brand has something...even if its rally or 100yrs ago.
 
nthfinity said:
http://www.elitelexus.com/1990.html
Lamborghini was finishing races, and had respectable points for a new engine manufacturer... when the engine later went to worse chassis, the cars performed worse... go figure ;) But the engine's weren't unreliable... in fact, a big reason Lambo went to F1 was because the Ferrari F1 engine builder left Ferrari for Lamborghini.

A Lola Lamborghini F1 is a 'priced to sell' car if you can ever find one ;)
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Well they did get 11 points in that one "shining" season, but if you check the prior season and the three after 1990, they were either dead last or tied for dead last for points in each season. And it wasn't all the chassis. Lambo engines were very very heavy, and Lambo learned that one engine builder does not make an F1 team. From 1991 through 1993 they had 23 engine failures and just as many overall mechanical failures on top of that. Many races they didn’t even qualify due to mechanical failures during qualifying (not counted in the above 23). Like I said, it wasn’t helping the image of their street cars if they couldn’t keep their race cars running.

As an aside, it was just recently that Ferrari overtook Ford with the most engine victories in Formula 1.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:1991_Formula_One_race_reports
 
I have a couple clients and good friends that own two of the most famous F1 racing engine companies of all time. We used to talk about Lambos when they would "cross the pond" to visit (I had bought one at the time). They said the F1 Lambo engine was a "lump".

Before Accufab ever decided to make the bolts for our transaxles, I sent all the info I could find on the problem to one of my "F1 friends". He called 30 minutes later and told me it was the bolts only. He gave me the specs of the bolts to use and told me to "call it a day", and that there was absolutely nothing wrong with the design of the transaxle. He's personal friends with everyone who's anyone at Ricardo, and said at the time he could have given me the cell number of the guy who headed up the design for our transaxles, but he figured that guy would have been pissed, so he didn't. I never said anything on the Forum, because at the time I had asked for help in gathering all the known info on the problem to send to him, and no one responded. I figured no one would trust what I had to say, so I decided that someone everybody trusted would eventually figure out the real problem anyway, and they did a few months later. And no, I am not going to name names because he asked me not to. Believe me or not, but those that know me, know it’s the absolute truth.
 
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What makes you think we believe we now? Yeah, yeah, we all know, you didn't want to cry wolf.
 
I have a couple clients and good friends that own two of the most famous F1 racing engine companies of all time. We used to talk about Lambos when they would "cross the pond" to visit (I had bought one at the time). They said the F1 Lambo engine was a "lump".

Gulf GT? I am putting my money on the guys from Cosworth who are your friends. Then again, it could be the guys from Ilmor which is now owned by Mercedes.

Never mind about Lambo re-entering F1, Ford made a mistake several years ago by selling Cosworth as they are one of the most successful F1 partnerships in a 40 year period, so I think I would rather lobby Ford to buy Cosworth back and re-enter F1.
 
Gulf GT said:
Well they did get 11 points in that one "shining" season, but if you check the prior season and the three after 1990, they were either dead last or tied for dead last for points in each season. And it wasn't all the chassis. Lambo engines were very very heavy, and Lambo learned that one engine builder does not make an F1 team. From 1991 through 1993 they had 23 engine failures and just as many overall mechanical failures on top of that. Many races they didn’t even qualify due to mechanical failures during qualifying (not counted in the above 23). Like I said, it wasn’t helping the image of their street cars if they couldn’t keep their race cars running.

As an aside, it was just recently that Ferrari overtook Ford with the most engine victories in Formula 1.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:1991_Formula_One_race_reports
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Thank for posting the real story. They had a bad engine, car, chassis, etc. Unreliability does not sell cars.

Yes its true that Ferrari recently overtook Ford, but when many the F-1 field were using a Ford/Cosworth engine the odds were greatly in their favor of winning.
 
 
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fordcapri said:
Gulf GT? I am putting my money on the guys from Cosworth who are your friends. Then again, it could be the guys from Ilmor which is now owned by Mercedes.

Never mind about Lambo re-entering F1, Ford made a mistake several years ago by selling Cosworth as they are one of the most successful F1 partnerships in a 40 year period, so I think I would rather lobby Ford to buy Cosworth back and re-enter F1.
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No comment on the first part.:biggrin

Oh man, I really miss having Ford in the "big game", especially now that I own one of the greatest road cars ever developed, and it's a Ford.
 
barondw said:
Yes its true that Ferrari recently overtook Ford, but when many the F-1 field were using a Ford/Cosworth engine the odds were greatly in their favor of winning.
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Yes I know. I strategically left that out.:biggrin
 
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