WTB Blue/White Stripe
- Thread starter S592R
- Start date
Gregg Thurman
GT Owner
- Nov 3, 2007
- 29
Good luck. I've been looking here and elsewhere, and everything I have found comes with the premium (regardless of miles). Please let me know if you find one you aren't interested in. Thanks.
Gregg Thurman
gathurm@aol.com
Gregg Thurman
gathurm@aol.com
Bobby_P
Active member
I have been looking as well. Ditto on the premium being present regardless of mileage. I am hoping the current economic conditions will soon produce some realistic prices.
shelbyelite
PERMANENTLY BANNED
- May 10, 2007
- 1
Wait till the economy does better and the prices go higher and you find yourself saying, "I wish I would have bought that blue gt back when......"
Sorry, just had to say that! I wish you guys good luck. There is always a smokin deal out there somewhere..... Just gotta hope you get lucky and find it. I have seen a few good buys on BLUE GTs with miles. They didnt last long. Seems like there was one in California at a Lotus dealership with about 15k miles.
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Bobby_P
Active member
Sure...the economy will improve at some point. But, IMHO, we will experience a great deal of pain before the rebound. Considering this time last year new cars were selling under MSRP I suspect the recent run up in prices will not last--of course, I am not speaking to 10, 20 years down the road. Your opinion, as a Ford GT dealer, is valued, but you clearly have a vested interest in being able to flip cars at a profit.
Sorry, just had to say that!
silver1331
GT Owner
Bobby - i tend to agree with you on the economy as well but buying a GT should be about the fun of driving it not the investment but i'll tell you as an investment it has some of the best fundamentals out there
1. limited production, only 4k made total (that's before the wrecked ones or race versions). ferrari makes that many cars in 1 year and is still adding supply. Ferrari made over 11k 360s alone and now you have the 430s
2. The GT was never sold (ex a handful to canada and europe) into the world market, with the dollar the way it is these cars are damn cheap relative to other cars for buyers in europe or asia.
3. emerging market and gulf money, i have 2 friends in middle east who bought GTs. There's alot of money globally and people with money like unique cars. Everyone in london or middle east has a lambo, rolls or a F430 and can get one from a local dealer. Go to knightsbridge and the streets are lined with them. Not everyone can find a GT.
Its all these factors that make the GT a decent buy at these levels and why i wouldnt be surprised to see prices keep moving up...btw i never even mentioned price relative to performance vs ferrari or other high end exotics. Plus no one in their right mind "collects" a F430 in hopes the prices move up. i bet you alot of people are doing that with the GT. Cars in general are bad investments but some are better than others, look at the mid-90s 911 turbos. I'm not saying the GT is a double or triple but if you're like me and bearish being long this market, i'm happy to park my $ in a GT (looking forward to the silver no stripe Shelby!)
1. limited production, only 4k made total (that's before the wrecked ones or race versions). ferrari makes that many cars in 1 year and is still adding supply. Ferrari made over 11k 360s alone and now you have the 430s
2. The GT was never sold (ex a handful to canada and europe) into the world market, with the dollar the way it is these cars are damn cheap relative to other cars for buyers in europe or asia.
3. emerging market and gulf money, i have 2 friends in middle east who bought GTs. There's alot of money globally and people with money like unique cars. Everyone in london or middle east has a lambo, rolls or a F430 and can get one from a local dealer. Go to knightsbridge and the streets are lined with them. Not everyone can find a GT.
Its all these factors that make the GT a decent buy at these levels and why i wouldnt be surprised to see prices keep moving up...btw i never even mentioned price relative to performance vs ferrari or other high end exotics. Plus no one in their right mind "collects" a F430 in hopes the prices move up. i bet you alot of people are doing that with the GT. Cars in general are bad investments but some are better than others, look at the mid-90s 911 turbos. I'm not saying the GT is a double or triple but if you're like me and bearish being long this market, i'm happy to park my $ in a GT (looking forward to the silver no stripe Shelby!)
Kirby Vieira
GT Owner/B.o.D
The reality is that deals on GT's are difficult to find. The ones for sale are commanding big prices. It's simple supply and demand economics, plus every year, the ship comes in for many new people who previously only dreamed of owning one...many of whom will pay whatever it takes to get the car they want. I also believe that generally, the most desirable cars are in the hands of owners who have no intention of selling them. Many owners with 2 GT's have no desire to sell either of them. Now, some owners with 3+ would probably consider selling one...for the right price, and then there's Shelby who will always have good/great cars at the market price for good/great cars, which isn't trending very favorably for those looking to buy one. :cheers
shelbyelite
PERMANENTLY BANNED
- May 10, 2007
- 1
I am a dealer, but I dont have to post false statements about the cars to sell them. If the prices go down, I will buy them at the lower prices and continue to make money. I was simply stating that these cars are only getting harder to get and prices still seem to be going up. Go to ebay, there are maybe 15 cars at the most for sale. It shows 20 or so, but alot of those cars are mustangs listed in the wrong place. IMHO, dealer or not, prices are gonna get higher before they get lower. Remember, we are in the dead of winter, on a struggling economy and these cars are selling without problems. Just my point of view. This is ONLY my opinion. :thumbsup
silver1331
GT Owner
dealers
Plus dealers make money on margin, not on rising car prices - they're not the manufacturer. If Shelby were lying all he would be talking up is his current inventory which seems pretty damn low. Plus it only makes it harder for him to buy cars (fewer sellers in a rising market) and he has to pay higher financing bc the asset is more expensive. From having talked to a variety of wholesalers and dealers...he is not alone in his views. i have yet to talk to a dealer who has had a GT sit around for a while.
Plus dealers make money on margin, not on rising car prices - they're not the manufacturer. If Shelby were lying all he would be talking up is his current inventory which seems pretty damn low. Plus it only makes it harder for him to buy cars (fewer sellers in a rising market) and he has to pay higher financing bc the asset is more expensive. From having talked to a variety of wholesalers and dealers...he is not alone in his views. i have yet to talk to a dealer who has had a GT sit around for a while.
Just buy now.... you won't regret it and you won't lose your money on it either...... Even if you buy high at $170 and in 3 years you sell for a price you're looking for now (what?$150)(which won't happen unless you beat up the thing)that's 20K over 36 months equaling $555.55 a month.... That's a pretty low car payment for a FGT for 3 years.... :biggrin
I just had to say that...:biggrin
I just had to say that...:biggrin
Bobby_P
Active member
I agree with you regarding comparing a F360 or a F430 to a FGT. There is much more supply out there for the F cars. However, if you look at the Challenge Stradale that is a different story. If I recall correctly there were only 300 or so made for the world market (maybe 400, can't remember). Now I am sure everyone has an opinion on which is the better car, but Ferrari guys tend to be loyalists and will buy the CS even if the FGT performs better. My point being is the CS is selling for a far less $$ premium over original MSRP than the current "market prices" of the FGT--remember, there is only a 1/10th supply of CS's as compared to the FGT. Plus, I guarantee you will not find ANY dealers with more than two CS's in their inventory. Yet the CS sells for less of a premium.
As a F430 owner I knew full well I was going to get hammered on purchasing a new car without being a "friend" of a dealer. I am sure my car is worth less than what I payed. But, if you think about it, that also creates downward pressure on GT prices. Soon you will be able to buy a used '05/'06 F430 coupe for the high 190's/very low 200's (already there if they have a couple thousand miles). I am sure most on this forum will say they would never take an F430 over a comparably priced FGT, but I presume the contributers to this forum do not represent the general marketplace--if they did, I would not have been offered a new Heritage from my local dealer for $7k off MSRP just about one year ago today (silly me...I passed...instead waiting for my blue/white stripe car to materialize). IMHO, I believe the continued downward pressure on F430 prices will pressure FGT prices in the near future. Not to mention...I don't have exact figures, but if I recall corectly there are not nearly as many F430 coupes in the USA (due to Asian & Middle Eastern demand) as there were 360's at this point in production.
Another issue facing FGT prices is the number of multiple car owners. Sooner or later the individuals that own 2 or more FGT's are going to want to sell. That eventual supply will influence pricing. Now maybe everyone that owns a couple FGT's has a phone-digit salary...maybe not. For all we know quite a few multiple GT owners were mortgage brokers, builders, or realtors cashing in on the housing boom. Sooner or later, if the economy starts taking a beating (we haven't seen anything yet IMO), having $350k-$400k+ of FGT laying around starts looking like it needs to be monetized.
Lastly, based on my research, there are about three dealers that seem to always have a steady stream of GT's going through their inventory. From what I have observed, several cars have been acquired by these dealers via listings on this forum/ebay/Autotrader and then re-listed for sale in their inventory for several $$$ higher than previously offered by the original seller. This is a business model that likely will not survive if there is an increase of GT inventory available for sale. Meanwhile the three dealers that I am aware of enjoy "cornering" the market for a car that is currently in short supply.
Maybe I am completely wrong as to the direction of GT prices over the course of the next 6 months--guess that is what makes a market. If I am I guess I will be paying a lot more for my blue GT when I find it. Then again, I will probably at least even out since I am looking to move to the San Diego area and prices can't seem to drop fast enough for many sellers...guess they should have speculated on Ford GT's instead of Southern CA real estate!
Bobby_P
Active member
Now I am not insane! No way do I think I am purchasing a GT at this moment for $150ish. Show me a sub-1,000 mile car for ~mid to high $170's and I am likely a buyer if the car checks out. Problem is dealers think they can get mid to high $190's for these type of cars. I might very well be wrong, but I doubt if the economy falters significantly there will be people lining up to buy at that price considering you could buy a new car under MSRP last year at this time while the economy was still booming (although looking rather shaky).
sandiegored
GT Owner
- Apr 2, 2006
- 32
"Maybe I am completely wrong as to the direction of GT prices over the course of the next 6 months--guess that is what makes a market. If I am I guess I will be paying a lot more for my blue GT when I find it. Then again, I will probably at least even out since I am looking to move to the San Diego area and prices can't seem to drop fast enough for many sellers...guess they should have speculated on Ford GT's instead of Southern CA real estate!"
Like everything, supply and demand is what makes a market. If you want to acquire prime real estate in San Diego, don't plan on coming out even. Reason, limited supply of ocean front/view and plenty of wealth living in paradise. If you are looking for track housing in east county San Diego, there is plenty of opportunity. The same holds true for our cars. The 360 market has plummeted and will continue to do so. There are so many listed in Ferrari's market letter. It was just a matter of time before the market went soft. However, the supply of FGT's is very thin and that will keep prices up for the near future. There also is no successor "355/360/430/460" replacement on the horizon for the FGT. I agree with Shelby, these are very tough times in the exotic car market and the FGT has really held value even in the dead of winter.
Like everything, supply and demand is what makes a market. If you want to acquire prime real estate in San Diego, don't plan on coming out even. Reason, limited supply of ocean front/view and plenty of wealth living in paradise. If you are looking for track housing in east county San Diego, there is plenty of opportunity. The same holds true for our cars. The 360 market has plummeted and will continue to do so. There are so many listed in Ferrari's market letter. It was just a matter of time before the market went soft. However, the supply of FGT's is very thin and that will keep prices up for the near future. There also is no successor "355/360/430/460" replacement on the horizon for the FGT. I agree with Shelby, these are very tough times in the exotic car market and the FGT has really held value even in the dead of winter.
shelbyelite
PERMANENTLY BANNED
- May 10, 2007
- 1
Bony, go ahead and change the name of this thread to "FORD GT current and future market" :rofl
Sorry for the thread hi-jack!
Sorry for the thread hi-jack!
- Dec 3, 2006
- 2,800
Not to feed the debate guys but prices went up this time last year (and to a lesser point the year before) and then dropped in early spring then began to build again through the year. Was it supply and demand? Was it the New F430 or was it "flippers". Not really sure on any point but getting back to my needs. I just do not want to pay a 15-30k premium (depending on 05 or 06 car) low mileage car just to put 10k miles on it this year. I am not looking at selling the car but I do want to add two cars this year one a tt project and the other a driver. My desires are totally based upon what I have seen in the past. If the right car comes along then I can be moved off my budget. But right now it would have to be a MSO non-driven (pristine )car for me to pay 25-30k over list instead of one's like I have seen. You could have eaten out of the engine compartment of 1076 and I expect that from the next car that I buy if I am paying a premium.
No knock against the dealers on the forum I truly enjoy talking to both of them and am hopeful that we can come to a deal sometime in the future. It is a matter of simple dynamics they have their number in their mind and I have mine. Right now I need to track down pockets and kick him for selling my son's car to someone else. Bad pockets, Bad Pockets.:slap:slap:slap:slap
:biggrin
Oh yeah... I just missed a blue/white from a private seller for 167k with 5k miles. It will pop up here in a few .... have the vin number.
Shelby did that San Diego car sell or is it still at the lotus dealer? 15k miles would work for me... depending on condition and price.
No knock against the dealers on the forum I truly enjoy talking to both of them and am hopeful that we can come to a deal sometime in the future. It is a matter of simple dynamics they have their number in their mind and I have mine. Right now I need to track down pockets and kick him for selling my son's car to someone else. Bad pockets, Bad Pockets.:slap:slap:slap:slap
:biggrin
Oh yeah... I just missed a blue/white from a private seller for 167k with 5k miles. It will pop up here in a few .... have the vin number.
Shelby did that San Diego car sell or is it still at the lotus dealer? 15k miles would work for me... depending on condition and price.
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shelbyelite
PERMANENTLY BANNED
- May 10, 2007
- 1
I think you understand just as good as anyone considering your car brought well over MSRP with near 10k miles. It was a good car and thus brought a good price as any GT in todays market will. In the end, me nor anyone on this great forum KNOWS whats gonna happen. We can speculate till the cows come home but that will be all we are doing is SPECUALTE. I have always sold a variety of cars, but have taken a very strong liking to the GT. Honestly, I dont make any more money on these cars than I do the Lambos, ferraris, etc that I have sold in the past. I just personally LIKE the GT. I guess I am very lucky to get to mix work and play! Honestly guys, I dont care wether you buy a car from me or someone else. There is more than one person on this forum that can tell you that I have helped them find a car that was not in my inventory that I made absolutly NO money on. Not a dime. I enjoy my time here. I enjoy talking with my friends here about common interest. Getting to sell them is just a bonus. Long story short, find you a car and buy it. You WONT regret it! :thumbsup
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Bobby_P
Active member
Unfortunately I don't have the $$$ necessary to wake up in an ocean front La Jolla home. However, I can state for a fact that various areas in SD in the $2 to $3 million range have VERY eager sellers.
I apologize for hijacking DPGT's thread...I will shut up now.
Shelby certainly is correct that none of us knows where prices will be 6 or 12 months from now. In the meantime I will keep looking for my blue GT :thumbsup
B O N Y
MODERATOR & FGT OWNER
any of your brain surgeons can recommend to me to go long or short on the SP on Monday......
don't any of you guys have wives, girlfriends???
ok,.... it has been a while for me as well...
I'm off to dinner, have a couple of Makers Mark Manhattans and can't wait to come back and watch you folks continue to spin your wheels
don't any of you guys have wives, girlfriends???
ok,.... it has been a while for me as well...
I'm off to dinner, have a couple of Makers Mark Manhattans and can't wait to come back and watch you folks continue to spin your wheels
shelbyelite
PERMANENTLY BANNED
- May 10, 2007
- 1
Wifes screaming at me to "COME TO BED"
Gotta go, I have to ask her what she thinks GT prices are gonna do! :rofl
Gotta go, I have to ask her what she thinks GT prices are gonna do! :rofl
- Dec 3, 2006
- 2,800
Agreed on several points ... and I do enjoy the time that we have spent together talking on the phone. I am hopeful that I can find a car that works for me and to be honest I would rather find the car from either you or Bernie. But as I stated earlier it jsut does not make sense to buy a premium (priced) car and drive it into depreciation territory when there are cars that you guys pass on because they have too many miles to bring a premium. That is why I called you and others so that if a clean car comes along but the dealers pass due to mileage then it can find a home here. Yes, 1076 sold high but that was because the rest of the market was high and if I had driven her 7000 miles less she would have went close to 200K but she was a driver and the current owner (she will be home here again one day ... huh Ben?? ) and I agreed to a price which was less than some owners paid for theirs new off the show room floor. The GT has always been a speculation car ... it is a beautiful car the causes passion in people. She is sexy. I really did not want to sell 1076 but needed to so I could close a chapter and seek closure. If that was not the case ... I would have been buried in that car. But .... well .... there you go.
When you look for a driver ... thats what you look for. To be honest I am willing to pay a slight premium for the right car .. I just have my own definition on what is slight. You guys find a yellow no stripe car then we can go nuts on that one. :biggrin