whipple 4.0


dealmaker

GT Owner
Sep 30, 2006
219
England
With Whipple selling this as a "Ford GT kit" - how much testing is/was actually done with the 4.0litre "in situ" on the car to ascertain what other modifications and additional components/items are needed to make the S/C work effectivley.

Surely it's counterproductive to simply knock out a "4.0litre kit" if it ends up being inferior to the 3.4Litre or develops a "bad rep" for the company?
 

BlackICE

GT Owner
Nov 2, 2005
1,416
SF Bay Area in California
I don't recall reading of any installs that went as smoothly as the Gen I or IIs. It seems that all of the 4.0L installations have been more than a simply bolt on and re-flash. Maybe Dustin can give us some more insights as to what is necessary for a seamless integration.
 

Fubar

Totally ****** Up
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Aug 2, 2006
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On another note - what other mods do you have to your engine?...are you running headers or just a CAT-back??

Thansk again! You are our pioneer!

My exhaust system is basically the same system that Shadowman offers.
http://www.fordgtforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15463

Thanks for the kinds words with regard to being a pioneer but I think many here are on the job. Although it can be frustrating, I kind of like the challenge (as long as I win in the end).

Did the new valve ship to you with a actuator adjustment tool? Was it straightforward to properly adjust the actuator? Proper adjustment is essential.

I miss-spoke, I only ordered the bypass actuator/diaphragm. The valve seemed mechanically sound. It's movement was smooth and unabated.

Exactly. As the solenoid is controlled by the ECU (to afford the protection as Rich suggests), it also begs the question if, on a modified car, the ECU "sees" what it believes is an over-boost condition and tries to save itself. In short, maybe there's additional programming that can be done so the ECU isn't the culprit that is pro-actively taking boost away from you.

The ECU function had been removed and tested. I attached the top diaphragm hose directly to the supercharger boost gauge vacuum line. This should produce positive pressure, and thereby close the valve in boost conditions. However, I could reproduce the boost-loss problem with the ECU out of the equation.

I know you are just testing and eliminating variables, but long term I would not recommend elimination of the bypass valve as its primary function is to eliminate SC cavitation.

I do not want to do this either. However, I am a little unclear on what the bottom vacuum line does for the engine. Rich tried to explain to me that it opens the valve when condition make the motor pull too much vacuum thru the intake tube. Because this line attaches to the bottom of the diaphragm and therefor a true vacuum would "pull" it closed... I can not get my head around how this would work.


With Whipple selling this as a "Ford GT kit" - how much testing is/was actually done with the 4.0litre "in situ" on the car to ascertain what other modifications and additional components/items are needed to make the S/C work effectivley.

Surely it's counterproductive to simply knock out a "4.0litre kit" if it ends up being inferior to the 3.4Litre or develops a "bad rep" for the company?

I think they tested the 4.0 system on one car with a stock exhaust system. I suspect that every car it has been installed on sense has an aftermarket system. I wonder if the reduced restriction on the back-end has revealed new restrictions on the front end.

I don't recall reading of any installs that went as smoothly as the Gen I or IIs. It seems that all of the 4.0L installations have been more than a simply bolt on and re-flash. Maybe Dustin can give us some more insights as to what is necessary for a seamless integration.

Oh, I know, I know... time and money. Just kidding, we will have this problem solved and a solution for everyone in short order.
 
Last edited:

Fubar

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Consider these solutions:

1)
With all vacuum lines attached as intended (ie: stock positions).

I run the engine up to high RPMs and shift. The throttle drops and closes the throttle bodies. This creates an unusual positive pressure behind the throttle bodies and this pressure kicks the bypass diaphragm open at a strange angle, causing it to lock briefly (until the throttle blips again and a vacuum is applied to the top of the diaphragm (straighten out the internal problems and closing the diaphragm).

2)
The ECU opens the bypass valve from the top and the massive vacuum created in the intake tube by the 4.0L whipple pulls the diaphragm at a strange angle (same problem, different cause) making it lock until a vacuum is applied to the top of the diaphragm again.


This is, of course, all speculation but I have disconnected the bottom vacuum line and I can not reproduce the problem. Feel free to pick apart this theory, constructive input is always welcomed.
 

rydog143

GT Owner
Jul 21, 2009
11
rochester ny
lost boost

Where did u go boost? cant find u any where, Tryed every thing on here with no luck . Even went out last night when i new it was cool got to 12 lbs of boost , it was low 70s out but where did the other 7 lbs go?. Had someone say might be the air intake hose took it apart it seem to be very stiff cant imagin that collapsing and restricting air i can hardly squeez it closed with booth hands. Does any 1 have the fix yet? and it is not the stock gauge, have 700 plus miles on whipple it use to dip below the 15 on the stock gauge now its 10. Just seems odd there are a couple of guys here that have the same problems cant get more then 10 lbs after having 19 lbs+ just want to know where the othe boost went ? Any help on the subject would be great thank you guys ...
 

dealmaker

GT Owner
Sep 30, 2006
219
England
I think it's well beyond time when Whipple themselves should be chipping in to this debate with some thoughts, comments and suggestions!...it's their product after all!

Their silence is concerning!

How many 4.0Litres we got on here now so far?
 

Fubar

Totally ****** Up
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Aug 2, 2006
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Where did u go boost? cant find u any where, Tryed every thing on here with no luck . Even went out last night when i new it was cool got to 12 lbs of boost , it was low 70s out but where did the other 7 lbs go?. Had someone say might be the air intake hose took it apart it seem to be very stiff cant imagin that collapsing and restricting air i can hardly squeez it closed with booth hands. Does any 1 have the fix yet? and it is not the stock gauge, have 700 plus miles on whipple it use to dip below the 15 on the stock gauge now its 10. Just seems odd there are a couple of guys here that have the same problems cant get more then 10 lbs after having 19 lbs+ just want to know where the othe boost went ? Any help on the subject would be great thank you guys ...

So your system was working properly and then (without changing anything else) you lost 10lbs of boost? Either your bypass valve is just stuck open or you have a leak somewhere else.
 

rydog143

GT Owner
Jul 21, 2009
11
rochester ny
no changes

yes did not change anything, the boost was just lost somehow. I cant believe its the air filters not letting air threw cuz they are dirty. Willing to try anything have talked to rich we tryed all the quick fixes and had no luck Think i should try the air box ? see if the filter are not letting air threw? thanks for the help .... might have to keep my quick silver stock
 

Fubar

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It is not impossible to get a plastic bag stuck in there.
 

rydog143

GT Owner
Jul 21, 2009
11
rochester ny
what r the odds?

what r the odds of more then 1 guy having something stuck in air box ? going to run real quick with out filter ill let u guys no what happens
 

Fubar

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Aug 2, 2006
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But you are saying that you never get more than 10lbs of boost. I see 20lbs of boost all day long. The only time I loose boost is when I shift, VERY quickly but my car has behaved this way sense the 4.0L install.
 

nota4re

GT Owner
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Feb 15, 2006
4,199
rydog143,

With all due respect, I can assure you that you have absolutely no clue how much boost that your car has. None. Zippo. Nada.

Go back and read Shadowman's post. You are running a voltage scaler (MAFia) that is LYING (intentionally) to your ECU and you have exceeded the OEM limits of the MAP sensor. By design, the ECU is commanding the OEM Boost gauge to place the needle at a certain location.... but the poor ECU is deceived by his (her?) primary sensors.

I understand that your gauge used to read one way, and now it reads something less. But, that is not particularly telling of what boost you had or have.

It is great for you to collaborate and seek the advice of the persons in this community - but you cannot reasonably complain about loss of boost pressure from an indicator that we KNOW cannot reliably relay boost values.

Please, I do not want to come off as disrespectful.... but you have to trust the feedback and help we are trying to provide.
 

Fubar

Totally ****** Up
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Aug 2, 2006
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It is my understanding that the boost gauge (both stock and aftermarket 30lbs gauge) operate off a vacuum line that comes directly from the "boost side" of the supercharger. The mafia device, and/or MAF sensor does not feed the boost gauge information.
 

tmcphail

GT Owner/Vendor
Mark IV Lifetime
Apr 24, 2006
4,102
St Augustine, Florida
It is my understanding that the boost gauge (both stock and aftermarket 30lbs gauge) operate off a vacuum line that comes directly from the "boost side" of the supercharger. The mafia device, and/or MAF sensor does not feed the boost gauge information.

Untrue in regards to the factory gauge. The manifold pressure is extrapolated from a handful of sensors most leaning on MAF voltage to generate a 'visual pressure' on the stock boost gauge.
 

Fubar

Totally ****** Up
Mark II Lifetime
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Aug 2, 2006
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very interesting... I learn something new everyday.
 

BlackICE

GT Owner
Nov 2, 2005
1,416
SF Bay Area in California
The stock boost gauge is inferred from the MAF, engine displacement and RPM. Most tunes with using the Mafia will scale the MAF so that the stock gauge will not work correctly. I have tuned my car to have the stock gauge work, but it is easily pinned to 15+ PSI, pressures below that read OK. The only way to get reasonably boost numbers on your dash while running more than 15 PSI is to add Freeflyer's boost gauge with the supplied GM 3 bar MAP sensor.
 

rydog143

GT Owner
Jul 21, 2009
11
rochester ny
maybe have the fix

nota4re just got off phone with mike from whipple they had a car on the dino that had same problem as mine no longer getting full boost . He said they had a guy on each side of the air inatke and they seen the hose collapse and told me it was restricting air. Im getting 1 made up with a center piece to make it stiffer, he told me that the 1 they had made for the car on the dyno fixed the boost issue and the gauge returned to normal with full boost . thanks for all the input getting it on friday will let u no if it works
 

BlackICE

GT Owner
Nov 2, 2005
1,416
SF Bay Area in California
I thought anyone running a Whipple would have also installed Jay's power rings, or Accufab's stiffener.
 

rydog143

GT Owner
Jul 21, 2009
11
rochester ny
have ring

have the acufab stiffener installed they say they it needs more
 

Mullet

FORD GT OWNER
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Oct 21, 2008
2,468
Houston Texas
very interesting... I learn something new everyday.

glad you are...I'm lost. :lol