for those that have them, how does it sound?, please describe. Do you feel a power difference? Have you dynoed with & without? Also hoes the heat & does the exhaust smell different? Thank you
Milton
Milton
Ford Race Header/Exhaust
- Thread starter MG0427
- Start date
Others here have posted what they thought the FRPP open race exhaust and although it is very loud some are using it on their “street” car.
However in my opinion it is way too loud for street use. Ear plugs are required under WOT.
From my earlier posting:
“I’ve run my car without cats and an open exhaust. This set up does not add significant HP when compared to Bob Ida’s exhaust coupled to the stock cats (+ or - 10to15 HP). Not possible to get 50 HP in comparison to Bob’s system!
However, in my opinion an open exhaust (without cats) / FRPP race exhaust require ear plugs!
It’s that loud!
Bob’s exhaust coupled to the stock cats is every day drivable and you are not giving up squat in HP or Torque.
Seems Bob Ida’s GT exhaust has been patent pending since before it was released to the public. Makes sense since it was well tested, thought out and does the job.
Check out his web site
http://www.perfectpowerusa.citymax.com/page/page/3095644.htm
Check out the September Hot Rod magazine once it’s released too!
http://www.idaautomotive.com/default.asp
PS: Thanks Bob for all your hard work and a fantastic system!”
However in my opinion it is way too loud for street use. Ear plugs are required under WOT.
From my earlier posting:
“I’ve run my car without cats and an open exhaust. This set up does not add significant HP when compared to Bob Ida’s exhaust coupled to the stock cats (+ or - 10to15 HP). Not possible to get 50 HP in comparison to Bob’s system!
However, in my opinion an open exhaust (without cats) / FRPP race exhaust require ear plugs!
It’s that loud!
Bob’s exhaust coupled to the stock cats is every day drivable and you are not giving up squat in HP or Torque.
Seems Bob Ida’s GT exhaust has been patent pending since before it was released to the public. Makes sense since it was well tested, thought out and does the job.
Check out his web site
http://www.perfectpowerusa.citymax.com/page/page/3095644.htm
Check out the September Hot Rod magazine once it’s released too!
http://www.idaautomotive.com/default.asp
PS: Thanks Bob for all your hard work and a fantastic system!”
I was interested in the dyno graph that is on Bob's site. It shows the HP increase from 489 HP to 543 HP. That is a 54 HP gain over stock, and that is not possible with just a muffler swap. Also, the 489 HP stock number seems very low as a starting point. On an average, we see between 510 and 520 HP to the rear tires in stock form, on Westech's dyno.
Accufab said:
All Ida Automotive figures are correct and very accurate!
He has the latest 4 wheel drive DynoJet. Data logged and analyzed huge volumes of information.
The stock system creates so much heat under the hood that RW HP is often just below 500 under real world conditions when driven slowly around town! It’s a fact.
If you want the real thing then take your car to Bob Ida’s shop.
His data is of real world conditions and his products produce real world results!
Visit his shop and he will be happy to show you the graphs and data in more detail but I can’t argue with him for not posting everything and showing the sheets in small format on his web site as other are already making copies of his products.
The very top of Ida Automotive web page is states:
“Is your Ford GT Super car loosing power when it warms up? Well, we have the cure. Our extensive testing with the New Ford GT Super car has lead us to our New Performance Exhaust System. Check out these features: *increased power. *Polished Stainless Steel Siamese exhaust system. *Polished brackets. *50 lbs of weight reduction right off the rear of the car. *Vintage GT 40 sound and lower under hood temps keep from losing power. …………..Call 732 591 1245 to order.”
Heat is the source of the major issue here, backpressure is only one of the secondary issues.
Making a few dyno pulls - bolting on something different and making a few more dyno pulls does not fully reflect the whole picture of real world conditions for the GT.
Bob Ida has spent countless hours data logging the car under real world conditions, designing a system that resolves the major issues, sounds great for every day use and produces all the power you could hope for.
Most stock GTs can produced 520-540 RW HP under the best conditions but what about the real world. The point is what happens when your car is hot, what is the IAT at that point, what kind of power is produced under those conditions. This is part of what Ida Automotive is showing on it's web site dyno sheets without giving away the store.
I’ve been there, done that and am very happy with the solutions Bob Ida and his shop have provided.
Not knocking Accufab products.
For exhaust simply recommending going to the source that did the discovery and found the solutions (Ida Automotive). Giving credit where credit is due so to speak.
“Is your Ford GT Super car loosing power when it warms up? Well, we have the cure. Our extensive testing with the New Ford GT Super car has lead us to our New Performance Exhaust System. Check out these features: *increased power. *Polished Stainless Steel Siamese exhaust system. *Polished brackets. *50 lbs of weight reduction right off the rear of the car. *Vintage GT 40 sound and lower under hood temps keep from losing power. …………..Call 732 591 1245 to order.”
Heat is the source of the major issue here, backpressure is only one of the secondary issues.
Making a few dyno pulls - bolting on something different and making a few more dyno pulls does not fully reflect the whole picture of real world conditions for the GT.
Bob Ida has spent countless hours data logging the car under real world conditions, designing a system that resolves the major issues, sounds great for every day use and produces all the power you could hope for.
Most stock GTs can produced 520-540 RW HP under the best conditions but what about the real world. The point is what happens when your car is hot, what is the IAT at that point, what kind of power is produced under those conditions. This is part of what Ida Automotive is showing on it's web site dyno sheets without giving away the store.
I’ve been there, done that and am very happy with the solutions Bob Ida and his shop have provided.
Not knocking Accufab products.
For exhaust simply recommending going to the source that did the discovery and found the solutions (Ida Automotive). Giving credit where credit is due so to speak.
I was at a track in Chicago a month ago and someone with an 05 GT with a new FRPP exhaust had just dynoed their car and claimed they picked up 17 HP. I also have the same FRPP exhaust plus headers, but have yet to dyno it. I will let you know the numbers when I do in a month or so.
FYI: Also, FRPP is putting the finishing touches on a pulley and chip system this weekend.
FYI: Also, FRPP is putting the finishing touches on a pulley and chip system this weekend.
EasyEric
GT Owner
I have heard nothing but good things about Bob Ida, however, I too am suspicious of the 60hp gain claimed.
I am surmising that the horsepower "gain" claimed by Bob Ida can more accurately be described as horsepower "available". For instance, turning off your A/C does not increase engine horsepower, but it will make more horespower available at the rear wheels. This may be the same principle at work with the heat reduction benefits of Bob Ida's system.
Something that could resolve some of the confusion, is to detail the precise conditions under which the Ida tests were ran. In addition, I would submit that a reference test, run at room temp on "cold" engines, 24 hours apart (i.e., eliminating the influence of heat soak) for both stock and Ida mufflers would be clarifying.
Eric
I am surmising that the horsepower "gain" claimed by Bob Ida can more accurately be described as horsepower "available". For instance, turning off your A/C does not increase engine horsepower, but it will make more horespower available at the rear wheels. This may be the same principle at work with the heat reduction benefits of Bob Ida's system.
Something that could resolve some of the confusion, is to detail the precise conditions under which the Ida tests were ran. In addition, I would submit that a reference test, run at room temp on "cold" engines, 24 hours apart (i.e., eliminating the influence of heat soak) for both stock and Ida mufflers would be clarifying.
Eric
californiacuda
GT Owner
- Oct 21, 2005
- 919
It's not even an issue of questioning Bob Ida, Greg (I'm sure that he is more than competent at what he does), it's an issue of the 54 HP gain. If this gain is a legitimate number, I can assure you that some additional modification(s) were responsible for at least 38-40 HP of the 54 HP gain.
First, the FRPP exhaust does NOT "require ear plugs at WOT". It IS very loud - but the occupants of the car are well ahead of the sound and do not bare the brunt of it. Maybe the same is not true for persons BEHIND the car.... and I do agree that it is marginal for street use. BUT, make no mistake, it can be quite easily driven in such a manner that the exhasut is very tame.
Regarding the Ida exhaust and the claims made of the website. I have to agree with others in saying that the website is very deceptive about claimed HP gains. First, it's really hard to see any dyno info as the chart .jpg's are too small. However, if you look close, there is a huge dfference in IAT (Inlet Air Temps) between the dyno runs. The run that has lower IAT's produced more HP - duh! It also happens to be the pull (allegedly) that has the Ida exhaust installed. A more straightforward claim would be that lower IAT's produced more HP. The leap in faith is that the lower IAT's are completely due to the Ida exhaust. In my OPINION, this claim is total BS - and likely has little bearing on real-world experiences. As an example, it is entirely likely that the dyno pulls were conducted with the clamshell opened. In this scenario, the engine is ingesting air from around the engine bay - and not from an "ambient" location as it was designed to do through the integrated clamshell ducts. The simple point is that it would be VERY easy to replicate the Bob Ida +45HP gains with a GT - with absolutely no mechanical changes between runs. A cooler engine with lower IATs is going to produce more HP - period. (Does anybody not believe this?) Well, that said, it is therefore impossible to credibly associate performance improvements (let alone quantify them) with any other change between runs.
Regarding the Ida exhaust and the claims made of the website. I have to agree with others in saying that the website is very deceptive about claimed HP gains. First, it's really hard to see any dyno info as the chart .jpg's are too small. However, if you look close, there is a huge dfference in IAT (Inlet Air Temps) between the dyno runs. The run that has lower IAT's produced more HP - duh! It also happens to be the pull (allegedly) that has the Ida exhaust installed. A more straightforward claim would be that lower IAT's produced more HP. The leap in faith is that the lower IAT's are completely due to the Ida exhaust. In my OPINION, this claim is total BS - and likely has little bearing on real-world experiences. As an example, it is entirely likely that the dyno pulls were conducted with the clamshell opened. In this scenario, the engine is ingesting air from around the engine bay - and not from an "ambient" location as it was designed to do through the integrated clamshell ducts. The simple point is that it would be VERY easy to replicate the Bob Ida +45HP gains with a GT - with absolutely no mechanical changes between runs. A cooler engine with lower IATs is going to produce more HP - period. (Does anybody not believe this?) Well, that said, it is therefore impossible to credibly associate performance improvements (let alone quantify them) with any other change between runs.
californiacuda
GT Owner
- Oct 21, 2005
- 919
The Ida Automotive IAT was taken from real world driving on the street, not just on the dyno. So the HP gains with his system are the real thing, backed up by street driving and dyno follow up proof. If you choose not to believe this that’s fine.
I've seen the higher IAT on my car / others here have felt seat of the pants reductions in performance when the car heats up / it is occurring with the stock system if you believe it or not.
As for the FRPP exhaust others here need to understand this system is so loud on the dyno that you have to cover your ears. It's very loud!
I've seen the higher IAT on my car / others here have felt seat of the pants reductions in performance when the car heats up / it is occurring with the stock system if you believe it or not.
As for the FRPP exhaust others here need to understand this system is so loud on the dyno that you have to cover your ears. It's very loud!
AMB
GT Owner
I think that somewhere, we are getting off track with these dyno numbers and it's causing some confusion. The horsepower readings that you get off of a dyno (actually, the dyno is measuing torque, and a computer then extrapolates a HP number) is an accurate representation of the HP on that day, with that car, under the conditions relative to the test (temp, humidity, etc.). There is no such thing as "real world" numbers. There are only "dyno numbers", and to some extent, that is where the problem (or interpretations) may lie. There is no measurement for HP while you are driving down the street (other than seat of the pants). The other thing to remember about a dyno number is that it is really only relevent if you are doing an A - B comparison. Other than that, it won't tell you much, other than your total HP.
One of the things that we see fairly frequently, are enthusiasts that do their dyno comparisons many weeks (or even months) apart. This will greatly skew the data. There are too many potential variables that can get in the way of achieving any truly accurate comparisons. Things like engine wear, spark plug wear, lubricants, etc. etc., even tire wear will effect the HP numbers. Testing your car in February, making some changes and testing it again in July is pretty meaningless. The best way to do an A - B test (and very few do it this way) is to put the car up on the rollers, do the first test (the A test), pull off the old parts (like the throttle body, exhaust, etc.), install the new parts, and do the B test. The car never leaves the rollers. Be prepared to spend some cash if you attempt to do this since you will tie up the dyno all day, and time is money. When Accufab goes down the street to Westech (just a couple of blocks from our shop), we tie up the dyno all day long, from the time they open the doors until midnight if we have to. Whether we have an engine on one of the engine dynos (they have two) or on the chassis dyno, we don't leave until everything is done right, meaning we have good A - B data.
Let's talk about dynos for a second too, while we are at it. We use the Westech dynos exclusively, because they are convenient and because they are willing to work with us on our projects. We have a car or an engine on one of their dynos at least once a week. We have a GT there now, for some kind of a magazine test. If you want, check out www.westechperformance.com and you will see their facility. They have two engine dyno cells with Superflow engine dynos (a 901 and a 902). Both can handle 5000 HP engines (alky burning funny car engines for instance). Their chassis dyno is a Supeflow AutoDyn unit, capable of handling 1000+ at the rear wheels. This is a conservative number, I have seen NHRA Pro Stocks on the rollers putting out 1350 HP.
Accufab supplies headers for the dyno when needed. They also use our throttle bodies when they can. Who relys on the Westech dynos? Oh, Hot Rod magazine, Popular Hot Rodding, Car Craft magazine, Muscle Mustang & Fast Ford, yada, yada. Westech has also been home for the Engine Masters Challenge. In short, they know their sh!t over there.
Now, itf I were on the east coast or in the New Jersey area, I would beat a path over to Bob Ida's shop, or JDM, or Kinetics (if I were in the Atlanta area). These places all have good reputations and I would trust them. But we are here on the Left Coast and Westech is our home away from home.
Accufab is VERY conservative when it comes to releasing dyno numbers. If we can get a 20 HP increase out of a new throttle body, we will most likely advertise it at 15-18 more HP. I have seen people on other websites list horsepower increases of 10 to 20 more HP than what we can get out of the same unit. I know that these folks must be smoking rope. If they want to believe those phony numbers, fine with us I guess, but we know it's BS. We take the dyno tests very seriously and wish that eveyone else did too, but I know that there are alot of goofy numbers out there and I hope that folks on this site use their heads when reading these numbers.
Find a shop that you can trust, with people that you can work with, and you won't go very much wrong. Unless you just want a "HP number" that will impress your friends, use the dyno for what it does best, which is to make comparisons between A and B.
There is a neat sign over the dyno at Westech. It reads "Welcome to the polygraph room". That is real world.
One of the things that we see fairly frequently, are enthusiasts that do their dyno comparisons many weeks (or even months) apart. This will greatly skew the data. There are too many potential variables that can get in the way of achieving any truly accurate comparisons. Things like engine wear, spark plug wear, lubricants, etc. etc., even tire wear will effect the HP numbers. Testing your car in February, making some changes and testing it again in July is pretty meaningless. The best way to do an A - B test (and very few do it this way) is to put the car up on the rollers, do the first test (the A test), pull off the old parts (like the throttle body, exhaust, etc.), install the new parts, and do the B test. The car never leaves the rollers. Be prepared to spend some cash if you attempt to do this since you will tie up the dyno all day, and time is money. When Accufab goes down the street to Westech (just a couple of blocks from our shop), we tie up the dyno all day long, from the time they open the doors until midnight if we have to. Whether we have an engine on one of the engine dynos (they have two) or on the chassis dyno, we don't leave until everything is done right, meaning we have good A - B data.
Let's talk about dynos for a second too, while we are at it. We use the Westech dynos exclusively, because they are convenient and because they are willing to work with us on our projects. We have a car or an engine on one of their dynos at least once a week. We have a GT there now, for some kind of a magazine test. If you want, check out www.westechperformance.com and you will see their facility. They have two engine dyno cells with Superflow engine dynos (a 901 and a 902). Both can handle 5000 HP engines (alky burning funny car engines for instance). Their chassis dyno is a Supeflow AutoDyn unit, capable of handling 1000+ at the rear wheels. This is a conservative number, I have seen NHRA Pro Stocks on the rollers putting out 1350 HP.
Accufab supplies headers for the dyno when needed. They also use our throttle bodies when they can. Who relys on the Westech dynos? Oh, Hot Rod magazine, Popular Hot Rodding, Car Craft magazine, Muscle Mustang & Fast Ford, yada, yada. Westech has also been home for the Engine Masters Challenge. In short, they know their sh!t over there.
Now, itf I were on the east coast or in the New Jersey area, I would beat a path over to Bob Ida's shop, or JDM, or Kinetics (if I were in the Atlanta area). These places all have good reputations and I would trust them. But we are here on the Left Coast and Westech is our home away from home.
Accufab is VERY conservative when it comes to releasing dyno numbers. If we can get a 20 HP increase out of a new throttle body, we will most likely advertise it at 15-18 more HP. I have seen people on other websites list horsepower increases of 10 to 20 more HP than what we can get out of the same unit. I know that these folks must be smoking rope. If they want to believe those phony numbers, fine with us I guess, but we know it's BS. We take the dyno tests very seriously and wish that eveyone else did too, but I know that there are alot of goofy numbers out there and I hope that folks on this site use their heads when reading these numbers.
Find a shop that you can trust, with people that you can work with, and you won't go very much wrong. Unless you just want a "HP number" that will impress your friends, use the dyno for what it does best, which is to make comparisons between A and B.
There is a neat sign over the dyno at Westech. It reads "Welcome to the polygraph room". That is real world.
Jason Watt
Had both, sold both
Nota4re and Accufab guys,
I'm with you all the way... A 60HP gain from a cat back exhaust (not even headers) is not possible this side of the sun!!!! NEVER EVER!!!!
Engine temps, lid open or closed, aircon on/off - can easily throw the HP figures in both directions... Maybe "Bob I" is da maaaaan, but he should stick to some honest charts...
:slap
I'm with you all the way... A 60HP gain from a cat back exhaust (not even headers) is not possible this side of the sun!!!! NEVER EVER!!!!
Engine temps, lid open or closed, aircon on/off - can easily throw the HP figures in both directions... Maybe "Bob I" is da maaaaan, but he should stick to some honest charts...
:slap
B O N Y
MODERATOR & FGT OWNER
I think it is great that we have some top notch tuners posting. I think we need to be respectful of them, least we drive them away. I appreciate Acufab's posts to the point I have decided to buy their exhaust.
Now,... my real speed secret,... thanks AWSUM GT, we have a detail guy in Fresno, Tony, he went to school in England to use this super speed wax. My car now cuts through the wind like never before, throw away the Meguairs', Zymol, and call Tony. I understand he now is available on Tuesdays and Fridays, :slap what a second, I got it wrong, I am cutting wind like never before. Good night Gracie
Now,... my real speed secret,... thanks AWSUM GT, we have a detail guy in Fresno, Tony, he went to school in England to use this super speed wax. My car now cuts through the wind like never before, throw away the Meguairs', Zymol, and call Tony. I understand he now is available on Tuesdays and Fridays, :slap what a second, I got it wrong, I am cutting wind like never before. Good night Gracie
Fast Freddy
GPS'D 225 MPH
GTF-40
GT Owner
