Ford Race Header/Exhaust

[AMB]

Bart Carter

ALL Fords, including the Ford GT have BUILT-IN computer software to LOWER the HP with a INCREASE in ACT or ECT etc; etc.

AMB

 

[Bart Carter]

So my initial post makes sense.

It was my understanding that the IDA exhaust itself does very little to raise HP. It's the lowering of the temperatures that keeps the electronics from dialing back the HP to keep the car in a safe zone. So in effect you get the extra HP by not losing it to the heat. The 40 pounds plus loss of weight over the original muffler is a big plus too.

As you can see, I wasn't talking about air intake temperatures. There might have been some misunderstanding.

 

[californiacuda]

The original issue being discussed is that Bob Ida and his patent pending exhaust that he put so much time in developing and therefore should be entitled to a superpremium price for, claims to increase whp by almost 50.

This is an exaggerated and crazy claim that simply can not be supported except by one of Bob's minions(an obsequious follower, sycophant).

Give it up, I'm going to, you've worn me out with your incessent belief in Bob's supernatural power. A persons religious beliefs cannot swayed by argument, so go ahead and continue to worship at the alter of BOB.

 

[Beach-GT]

Data

When I get the Dyno data and the temperature data I will share it with you. I think the experts have missed something here. I don't know much but I AM an engineer and have been doing this for 42 years. I'm not real fast but my cars are. :thumbsup

 

[EasyEric]

Hey Beach,

Hurry up with that exhaust! :biggrin I was close to pulling the trigger on the Accufab pipe but they are "backordered" currently, so you've got some time.

Also, without disclosing anything proprietary, can you tell us how your muffler inserts will work? Will they require extensive work to remove and replace?


Eric

 

[B O N Y]

Here's an interesting paper on the variables of dyno testing:
http://www.kennebell.net/techinfo/general-info/DynoTestVariables.pdf

great post.
races are won on tracks, not dyno's.
you can jack the numbers however you wish.
a before and after ran on the same dyno without adjustments to dyno machine, and at same temp. and humidity are interesting.
dyno's are for bragging rights... the track ends all arguments.

 

[Bart Carter]

...Give it up, I'm going to, you've worn me out with your incessent belief in Bob's supernatural power...

I hope you are not referring to anything I posted, because I never said anything of the sort.

What I did say was that I believed that the GT is programmed to pull back HP at a higher temp. Going back through the posts, I found that Ida measured this to be 45 HP when the temperature reached 220 degrees. That, plus the fact that any engine makes less HP at elevated temperatures, just makes sense that ANY ANY ANY exhaust that blocks less air and can lower temperatures to under 220 degrees can see a 45 plus HP increase over a stock setup that is over 220 degrees.

 

[Accufab]

There has been significant questions raised about the dyno testing and results that have been obtained there from. At Accufab I personally conduct all dyno tests. Specifically regarding the x-pipe exhaust testing and evaluation of our product, this is how I conduct my tests. I run several baseline tests to establish accurate real world temperature and heat soak. I record all conditions that can vary the test such as ambient temperature, relative humidity, IAT, ECT, density altitude, fuel temperature, tire pressure.

I change to the parts that I am testing and bring the car back up to the same temperatures as previously recorded within 1% and begin testing. Once I have obtained several consistent dyno runs, I will get rid of the highest and lowest runs of each test and average the numbers. If we fall out of the prescribed 1% on any parameter, then I will look at the results and use a correction that is in accordance with the amount of deviation.

Having raced Modular engines for 10 years now, I can tell you for sure there is no 50 hp exhaust systems. Period end of story. Those reading can believe whatever they like. Now to the other side, under certain conditions, the x-pipe install under certain conditions can feel like 50 hp under extremely hot conditions. And that is a better way to represent the POSSIBLE gains. There is no way to specifically clarify those gains, but it is safe to say they are there, they are valid and they have merit. But that POSSIBLE gain varies like the wind and is subject to lots of weighted opinions.

Conducting a dyno test where all of the criteria is kept within 1% is absoulte and not subject to opinion. It ends all debates. The product either works or it does not. That's how I run dyno tests. That's why the results of my tests appear to be more conservative than others claims. But rest assured they are accurate tests. As previously mention about Kenne Bell dyno tests, I have worked together with Kenne Bell for 16 years and thier story outlines all of the reasons why I run my tests within 1%.


Best regards,

John Mihovetz
Accufab

 

[B O N Y]

Hello John,

First, I enjoyed talking with you yesterday. Hope to have my ACUFAB exhaust installed next Wednesday by THE GT GUYS.

Second, I agree with you have posted 100%

Third, I have always asked for that the engine builder break in the cam, and run any new motor I have ever had built for 45 to 60 minutes on the dyno. Figure if it is going to blow, it will happen there and not after my install.

Fourth, we discussed the lack of civility on the various car forums, ... except this one, I hope we can maintain that. I would hate to drive off the various suppliers. Your input is priceless.

God Bless America,
daniel

 

[TrackDay]

The careful conditional set up for dyno testing as described by others here is very important.

Ida Automtove did this and much - much more.
They’ve driven the GT on the road in stock condition to data log what is occurring in conjunction with the rising engine temperatures.
They reproduced those conditions on the dyno, data logging and quantifying the power drop off that is occurring (confirming our seat of the pants feel for the power decrease).
They analyzed data taken from driving the car, developed some theories why the temperatures are rising, causing the power loss and developed some possible solutions.
They tried those solutions on the dyno.
Then they tried those same solutions on the road and data log the results to confirm things.

To my knowledge the only people that have done this kind of work are Ford (SVT), Roush and Ida Automotive.
These are the people that have measured inlet air pressure, temperature, engine temperatures, etc, on the road at different speeds, with the windows up, with the windows down, with the A/C on / off.
These are the people that have determined the engine gets more air when driven with the windows up for example. This is the level of detail needed to prove these things out.

Ida Automotive has quantified 50 hp is lost. Ida Automotive have quantified the return of that loss buy using their exhaust system. I’ve got their exhaust on my car. I can tell you it’s helped on the track to lower peak engine temperatures and it’s helped around town driving. I can tell you that the seat of the pants feel is very significant and in my opinion feels larger than 50 HP. The 20 deg temperature drop Ida Automotive has data logged is very significant and if you are aware of it as a driver you can see and feel it too.

If you purchase the Ida Automotive system you will lower your engine temperatures, lower the IAT and restore the loss in power stock / Borla car previously exhibited when driven in the real world at the track or when driven slow in town / during stop and go traffic. I’m thankful for the level of detail they have put into this system.

 

[Beach-GT]

Some info

Hey Beach,

Hurry up with that exhaust! :biggrin I was close to pulling the trigger on the Accufab pipe but they are "backordered" currently, so you've got some time.

Also, without disclosing anything proprietary, can you tell us how your muffler inserts will work? Will they require extensive work to remove and replace?


Eric

The inserts are patented cold air/hot air mixing chambers that simply slip into the openings of the exhaust pipe and are held in with one screw. Putting them in or removing them is a minute's work. Since the output pipes are 4 inch ellipses, the flow with inserts installed is equal to a 3 inch open pipe but without the brash loudness. You can see it doesn't have the skinny chicken look either. To further reduce the sound for us more moderate people, SS wool can be added to the cold air chamber and the effect is like the old glass pack muffler. Low rumble but definately there. I need to get dyno data to prove my claims and fend off the naysayers before making more of these. There are a couple of other features incorporated that no-one has thought of yet or atleast incorporated, that will make this a very good system. Thanks for your interest.

 

[EasyEric]

My take so far:

1. I believe both Accufab X-pipe and the Ida Automotive pipe lower engine compartment temperatures and, by extension, lower the Intake Air Temperature (IAT). This is due to increased airflow in the engine compartment via reduced blockage.

2. I DO believe Bob Ida spent more time researching the causal relationship of lower engine compartment temps and IAT to AVAILABLE power (i.e, on road testing to determine the effects of heat soak). I do NOT believe Accufab did this...but for practical purposes, they did not have to. As long as you can reduce engine compartment temps (which the Accufab pipe does) you will reduce IAT and reap the benefits (more AVAILABLE power).

3. I believe both exhaust systems reduce weight versus the stock muffler.

4. I believe both systems offer a small horsepower gain (5 - 10hp) independant of IAT reduction, by virture of better flow (less restriction).

5. I believe both systems offer improved "sound" when compared to the stock muffler.

6. I am convicned the Ida pipe has no "drone" and believe the Accufab pipe has tolerable "drone". I believe much of Bob's novel, patentable claims may lie in this area: low drone resonance via baffling but with low restriction, probably a by product of his collaboration with Ford and SVT.

7. I believe both pipes look good, with a polished appearance and tips that fill out the bumper holes better than the stock muffler.

8. Both have the same installation complexity (or lack thereof).

Accepting the above as true, then the primary differentiator for me, is price. Being able to afford this car does not mean I will cavalierly overlook $1,100 in savings ($1,499 for Accufab and $2,600 for Ida). One thousand one hundred dollars goes a LONG way to my pulley upgrade. :usa

Eric

 

[Bart Carter]

Eric, I have to agree with you. And I am looking forward to the final Beach-GT exhaust. The removable inserts could be the deciding factor for me.

 

[SuperB]

Removable sounds perfect. I'd like a nice tone when I take the wife out for dinner, but something obnoxious for that once in a while, or at the track would be great.

Only thing better would be a button on the dash to make the change, so when some stupid guy with a super loud, POS drives up I can crack his windows. :thumbsup

 

[eshrink]

Eric:

If I understand, you are saying "I would buy the Bob Ida exhaust, but he certainly needs to cut that price in half."

Is that the bottom line?

What about a group buy? If we could do such a buy within the month, I am in.

- doc

 

[EasyEric]

You are correct Doc.

Barring new evidence to the contrary, I believe the Accufab and Ida pipes are practically fungible, save for price.

Eric

 

[eshrink]

Eric:

I think I misunderstood. I read your message as saying that if they were equal price, you would prefer the Ida. Thus, I was asking if people wanted to approach Bob Ida with a group buy.

- doc

 

[EasyEric]

Thats a good idea Doc. If a group buy would get the price closer to the Accufab price, I would seriously consider the Ida exhaust.

Eric

 

[eshrink]

Eric:

Sounds like it is time to determine how many seriously want the Ida system and then to approach Bob with an offer.

- doc

 

[MAD IN NC]

doc - good to see ya back. It's been quite lately.... add me to the list (3 now being you, easyeric and me)...

but.... better yet I'll wait till next week when I'll hear all three in Detroit and the price offset could go either way as I've waited this long - a back order when you own a GT is nothing!

Just gives me more time to look/ listen to the trial and tribulations of GT Joey! as we will hit 25k hits this week!

For X-mas I'm going to build GTJoey Bobble Head dolls for everybody cause he's our hero for pulling this event off!