Ford GT and The P. GT 2


B O N Y

MODERATOR & FGT OWNER
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Sep 5, 2005
12,110
Fresno, Ca.
Not to hijack here is P GT3 vs F430 and F430 Scud

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaqmxE_fmj0&feature=related
This GT3 driver is damn good even though the Scud pilot is braking early.
The Scud should be way ahead of the GT3
Keep in mind the F car has 100hp over the GT3

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OZk--Qq21ck
This is a good video as well


OK Doc, I got queasy watching these vids, can you prescribe me so medical marijuana to help me out. Screw those bracelets that Ed is in love with! :)
 

911teo

GT Owner
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Surrey, UK
I can understand that decision. From my experience, the GT3RS has such a great balance of grip and power that it's one of the rare cars you can slam the gas pedal down at will. It's got more than enough power to be quick, especially in the first 2 seconds out of a turn, but not so much that you can't keep your foot into it. There is something about being able stick your foot to the floor with impunity while driving it, and that simply is not possible in the GT2 (at least at my skill level). I have to agree that the GT3RS is more fun to drive, but its work to do it. The GT2 and GT3RS are physical animals compared to the FGT; it takes a lot more effort to get the job done.

However, the FGT was the first "race car" I ever wanted to own and drive from early childhood. The lines and the history combined with the fact that it's "American Made" are my choice over the Porsche. And, Ford did such a damn good job making it on top of all that. However, if Ford had not made the FGT, I would likely own a Carrera GT, GT2, or GT3RS.


I could not have said it better. And there is also something about the linear power delivery of a naturally aspirated engine vs a turbocharged one.

Ask yourself why NONE of the current supercars/exotics has a turbocharged motor?
I have a tricked old 911, 3.9L 360HP, 2,350lbs... I am on the gas way before the apex and most of the time to the floor just after the apex.

I can't do it with the GT. Maybe I need to grow bigger ones, but realistically with no TC there is too much torque and you risk losing time with wheel spin.

This is why I am saying that the GT sometimes has too much power... Obviously on any medium/fast track I am faster with the GT that with the 911, but that is not the poin, is it? I don't win any prizes for the faster lap... It's how much fun you have...

And I totally agree with you also on the style you need to use to get the most out of a GT vs a 911.

You need to be very smooth and gentle with your inputs with the GT and you'll be rewarded awesomely. Turn in is a little vague, but after that you can just control it with the throttle...

The 911 is a different animal (at least my car with no PASM, TC, ABS etc)... Fight it under hard braking,,, on the edge for trail braking with the tail always threatening to overtake you but then... on the gas earlier than you thought it was possible, thanks to the engine hanging behind the rear wheels...

But enough BS... the GT2 would be similar to drive to the FGT. This is why having that box already ticked my choice would be the GT3 RS.
 

closeshave

GT Owner
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May 13, 2007
80
London/ Peoria Illinois
Great one of the 997 GT2 being tested by autocar...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIMHbMXi178&NR=1
 

californiacuda

GT Owner
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Oct 21, 2005
919
I believe the Konisegg has twin rotex superchargers and the Saleen S7 can be had with TT.
 

californiacuda

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Oct 21, 2005
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Mercedes SLR 772 is supercharged, new corvette will be supercharged. The Nissan GTR which is ripping up the RING in Germany is TT. Supercharging provides very linear hp.
 

911teo

GT Owner
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Surrey, UK
I said no supercar apart from the 911 has a turbocharged motor...

Supercharging has the advantage of dealing with the lag.

But you can't deny that individual throttle bodies in a NA engine have a throttle response that NO supercharged motor can acheive.

Mercedes has dropped the supercharger for its driver oriented AMG models (CLK black) and the new AMG built engine is a high revving 6.2L

Audi has stuffed a V8 under the trunk of the RS4.... The R8 is an NA motor...

BMW M cars are all NA

Ferrari last turbocharged car was the F40.

Porsche's exotic car is a NA V10

Lambos are all NA

Zonda all have AMG 7.3l V12

The McLaren F1 (to me still the ultimate supercar) has a NA v12.

The Nissan GTR for me is not a supercar/exotic. It is a fantastic car that will humble many supercars but I do not put it in that category.


Force induction is a shortcut. Porsche (an I am the biggest Porsche fan you can find) needs it because it's the only way it's little sub 4 litre flat six can compete with the V10s or V8s from Ferrari, Lambo etc.

I believe they used a supercharger for the GT because of the time constraints. Simple. They had a decent base, knew they needed at least 500hp and didn't have 2 years to waste designing a 8k V8 screamer...
 
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closeshave

GT Owner
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80
London/ Peoria Illinois
I said no supercar apart from the 911 has a turbocharged motor...

The Lotus Esprit has a Turbo V8

...and the bugatti EB110 had a pretty cool quad turbo V12 60v engine...

And don't forget F1 cars were at thier most powerfull when they had turbocharged engines.

Turbo’s are more popular in regular cars then you might think, manufactures are realising with some engineering work turbochargers are a good way of increasing HP and saving gas. You can use a smaller engine to gain more HP therefore increasing MPG. Turbo’s are very popular here in Europe right now on diesel powered cars.
 

Empty Pockets

ex-GT Owner
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Oct 18, 2006
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Since the Bent. Cont. GT "speed" has been 200mph certified, I guess that should be classified as a supercar now, and it's twin turboed, and the SSC "Ultimate Arrow" is twin turboed as well...
 

Fubar

Totally ****** Up
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Not to unduly get us back on topic but...

The last time I took the GT to the track I gave a P. GT2 owner a ride. He was painfully trying to get me to hit the turns they "way he would." About the time I was getting frustrated with his commentary we came upon the big straight. I managed to pull off about 160mph but it was such an unapologetic exhibition of power that I had to smile.. After a hard brake and quick turn the Porsche owner said... I wonder if they'd give me my money back on that Porsche. :thumbsup
 

911teo

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Jan 5, 2007
628
Surrey, UK
The Lotus Esprit has a Turbo V8

...and the bugatti EB110 had a pretty cool quad turbo V12 60v engine...

And don't forget F1 cars were at thier most powerfull when they had turbocharged engines.

Turbo’s are more popular in regular cars then you might think, manufactures are realising with some engineering work turbochargers are a good way of increasing HP and saving gas. You can use a smaller engine to gain more HP therefore increasing MPG. Turbo’s are very popular here in Europe right now on diesel powered cars.

No CURRENT supercar has a turbocharger in its engine bay with the exception of the Veyeron (needing to hit 400km/h and a couple of limited production cars).

N/A cars are more fun to drive, have better throttle response and power delivery.
A supercar is not about saving gas.

I am not against turbos at all. They have a purpuse. A dramatic increase in power with a moderate increase in costs.

Let's take a 911 engine. With $45k you can build a 993 TT engine to 6-700HP quite reliably.

The same 445k put into a n/a motor will probably yield 370-390hp.

Now take a 2,200lbs wide body tub. With the 1st motor the car will be a point and shoot car. Remember the 935s? Winners in their class, devastatingly quick, but there is not much in terms of fun to have with those.

Now the same 911 tub with the 375hp will be a pleasure to drive.

So turbos are a wonderful thing. Look at the Hennessy TT GT... 200mph in 17 seconds... forget that in a n/a car.

At the end of the day my 3 year old daughter (if she were a little bit taller) could sit in the cockpit of the gT and wring it out to 211mph.... But would she care about how much the steering wheel squirmed in her palms as she braked for an off camber left hander, would she know the satisfaction of squeezing a cheeky extra shift into a short straight, indeed would she appreciate the sheer thrill of holding a car on the edge, on a line of total commitment (check out Senna thru' 130R at Suzuka) in her forced induction car....

Well proabably yes. But I'd never know because my wife would have killed me! However my point is that only with a naturally aspirated engine can you truly enjoy the belief and phyisical sensation of the throttle being hard wired into your brain and only without forced induction do you totoally enjoy the sensation that you are wielding a razor sharp scalpel with millimetric precision.

I'll summarise my case with an analogy. When you get it on with the missus you take out what you put in, less a tiny little bit. With an NA car you take out of the experience everything that you put in, and get a little bit more besides!

On that bombshell I shall leave you all to spend the remainder of the evening bidding for old Peugeot 205 Gti 1.6s on eBay and allow you to continue the converstaion once you are converts to 'the way'. Oops, but you guys never got to taste the delights of our european hot hatches so maybe I'm just talking to myself here...

Cocktails are calling - :cheers all in good fun!
 

californiacuda

GT Owner
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Oct 21, 2005
919
Supercharged engines develop max torque at very low rpm, 2500. It seems to me that is "throttle response"?
 

shesgotlegs

GT Owner
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Jul 20, 2006
1,181
Than the yellow GT 2. Pulled up next to me for a the typical 3 horn honk and go roll on race. They did the honking and the GT did the racing.. I ran them starting from 2nd gear at 60 mph. When I went from 3rd to 4th they were some far behind even I was in disbelief. They were so far back I wish I had a video...:biggrin

Stormcat not...more like Cheshirecat !
 

911teo

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Jan 5, 2007
628
Surrey, UK
Supercharged engines develop max torque at very low rpm, 2500. It seems to me that is "throttle response"?

The VW/Audi V10 Turbodiesel engines develop even more torque at even lower rpms.

It's not a question of torque.

Do yourself a favour and drive an old Alfa with carbs properly set up. That's throttle response. Every slight move of the accelerator pedal modules the power produced by the engine.

But I have hijacked this thread enough. Sorry for this, I'll leave it rest.
 

fjpikul

GT Owner
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Jan 4, 2006
11,505
Belleville, IL
Good one Terry! I can't think up enough names for the guy.
 

closeshave

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
May 13, 2007
80
London/ Peoria Illinois
No CURRENT supercar has a turbocharger in its engine bay with the exception of the Veyeron (needing to hit 400km/h and a couple of limited production cars).

N/A cars are more fun to drive, have better throttle response and power delivery.
A supercar is not about saving gas.

I am not against turbos at all. They have a purpuse. A dramatic increase in power with a moderate increase in costs.

Let's take a 911 engine. With $45k you can build a 993 TT engine to 6-700HP quite reliably.

The same 445k put into a n/a motor will probably yield 370-390hp.

Now take a 2,200lbs wide body tub. With the 1st motor the car will be a point and shoot car. Remember the 935s? Winners in their class, devastatingly quick, but there is not much in terms of fun to have with those.

Now the same 911 tub with the 375hp will be a pleasure to drive.

So turbos are a wonderful thing. Look at the Hennessy TT GT... 200mph in 17 seconds... forget that in a n/a car.

At the end of the day my 3 year old daughter (if she were a little bit taller) could sit in the cockpit of the gT and wring it out to 211mph.... But would she care about how much the steering wheel squirmed in her palms as she braked for an off camber left hander, would she know the satisfaction of squeezing a cheeky extra shift into a short straight, indeed would she appreciate the sheer thrill of holding a car on the edge, on a line of total commitment (check out Senna thru' 130R at Suzuka) in her forced induction car....

Well proabably yes. But I'd never know because my wife would have killed me! However my point is that only with a naturally aspirated engine can you truly enjoy the belief and phyisical sensation of the throttle being hard wired into your brain and only without forced induction do you totoally enjoy the sensation that you are wielding a razor sharp scalpel with millimetric precision.

I'll summarise my case with an analogy. When you get it on with the missus you take out what you put in, less a tiny little bit. With an NA car you take out of the experience everything that you put in, and get a little bit more besides!

On that bombshell I shall leave you all to spend the remainder of the evening bidding for old Peugeot 205 Gti 1.6s on eBay and allow you to continue the converstaion once you are converts to 'the way'. Oops, but you guys never got to taste the delights of our european hot hatches so maybe I'm just talking to myself here...

Cocktails are calling - :cheers all in good fun!



:biggrin:biggrin:biggrin I'll have a pint of what your drinkin mate :cheers :thumbsup
 

californiacuda

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Oct 21, 2005
919
The Germans have been working on the 911 series for over 40 years, and they are very, very good car builders. But, they have gone down the wrong path. The rear engine (behind the transaxle) is not the best design (ass heavy), and a flat six (based on an air cooled design) has trouble gettting enough displacement and hp.

Other vehicles, like the mid engine Ford GT with a little massaging from groups like the people in this forum, will ultimately destroy an unbalanced, undersized engined vehicle like the GT2.
 

STORMCAT

GT
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May 25, 2006
7,553
Ft. Lauderdale
Than the yellow GT 2. Pulled up next to me for a the typical 3 horn honk and go roll on race. They did the honking and the GT did the racing.. I ran them starting from 2nd gear at 60 mph. When I went from 3rd to 4th they were some far behind even I was in disbelief. They were so far back I wish I had a video...:biggrin

Stormcat not...more like Cheshirecat !

Yep.. and I'm still grinnin.. :huge:
 

tmcphail

GT Owner/Vendor
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Apr 24, 2006
4,102
St Augustine, Florida
:cheers
 

shesgotlegs

GT Owner
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Jul 20, 2006
1,181
Good one Terry! I can't think up enough names for the guy.

Frank, was it you who came up with Lazycat? Brien knows I'm still laughing about it... :lol
 

fjpikul

GT Owner
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Jan 4, 2006
11,505
Belleville, IL
Oh yes, I've had many names for him, and until he produces those bottle holders, he's going to get more of the same.