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WHIPPLE TUNES - Add on to Fubars Fuel Thread
- Thread starter 427Aggie
- Start date
Cost is certainly one factor and there is a multitude of different ways you can go - from mild to wild. Fubar seems to be going down the path of doing the best possible approach - likely the most expensive too, but you get what you pay for.
The other factor is that once you start messing with the fuel system you gotta worry about reliability and consistency. If one day that system doesn't perform - the engine will go "boom" pretty quickly.
- Aug 25, 2006
- 4,436
Yes "some" of the gals are as this has been the easiest means to combat the issue
Takes care
Shadowman
"Edited by Shadowman"
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- Aug 25, 2006
- 4,436
Enough is enough
I simply said yes many are; I have no idea whether the Heffner kit typically uses them and did not not say this.
So as to be clear; adding a boost-a-pump remains one of the easiest way to increase the available fuel delivery to the gals however that which Fubar has developed is likely the most comprehensive and beautiful to look at.
I edited the comment to read "some"; darn I was not looking create a riff.
Shadowman
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While the Boost-a-pump may be one of the preferred methods to increase fuel, the jist of this thread is to the point of what systems typically may require a modified fuel system. To this point, I add that the Heffner TT kit (and perhaps others) has shown results in the 950-1000 RWHP with NO fuel system modifications. A solution (albeit not an inexpensive one) that can produce this kind of HP results WITHOUT fuel system upgrades may be seen as being advantagous.
Hence, your post was in direct contradiction to a post I made previously to which I simply asked to what system(s) you were referring.
Hence, your post was in direct contradiction to a post I made previously to which I simply asked to what system(s) you were referring.
Fubar
Totally ****** Up
I agree 100%, the reliability of this system is, as of yet, unknown. However, the main reason I went with the mechanical pump (vs multiple electric pumps) is that I only need one, if it fails the engine will not run. That is a much better scenario than unwittingly running lean. In fact it was a key deciding factor... less devices that can fail. Removed, boost-a-pump, two electric pumps, ECU pressure control but there is certainly risk when you develop something totally new. I am well aware and justifiably nervous.
I am unsure of anyone that is currently using these on a regular basis for TT cars....although I don't know what Hennessy or Torrie did. I don't like the BAP and I think we need to look at what we get. These cars have 2 pumps for a reason. Without the whipple upgrade you are running at maybe 60% usage at the top end. The BAP will overvolt the system and give it more fuel but what happens if the BAP goes bad? What happens with the 3.4's and 4L's that are at 90% and one of the pumps goes out?
I'm more worried about people not knowing whats going on with the fuel system and then as nota4re said..boom
Unfortunately as I don't want to permanently modify my car and am just doing this to get it over the 200 mark with cushion, this was the quickest solution.
The point of the thread was to give people information that others may not have. If you get your car tuned locally and you have someone like most of the mustang SCT tuners around here they are just going to add fuel and timing and go good enough. I have Fisher looking over the tuners numbers to make sure its done right.
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HHGT
Guest
I dont like "Boom".... Boom in my GT scares me - laying down in fetal position sucking on my thumb......
The reason I asked was since some of us have invested in the Whipple upgrade, then an increase in fuel would be far less $$$ than starting over and TT the car - But I dont want Boom....
Fubar
Totally ****** Up
A good safety measure is to put an O2 sensor in your car. I have one and I am always glancing at it during boost runs. Just to make sure nothing weird is happening. It's worth the peace of mind.
Hey, just to be clear... I am DEFINITELY not here waving the red flag against the Whipple solution. We have installed several of them and they remain a very, very, good solution at an attractive price point compared to the TT's. I think the fuel concern has thus far been limited to just a few cars and those that are trying to extract the most from their investment. Most of our experience has been with the Gen 1 and 2's and to which we never experienced any fuel problems. I don't have a lot of experience with the 4.0 but people like Torrie or the GT Guys can probably speak to the number of cars they have worked on without issue.
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HHGT
Guest
While we're on the Whipple discussion, are there any other Boost Gauge options other than the $1,400 OEM look alike replacement. I wouldn't even mind a gauge in the engine compartment seen through the rear view mirror or one that registers the max boost and stays there for inspection after the fact, instead of resetting back to zero when the engine is shut off.
Fubar, great minds must think alike... I was just going to post a reference/recommendation to use some kind of on-board monitoring.
On Apollo's TT, he asked that we incorporate on-board, real-time read out and data logging. We opted to implement the Innovate LM-2
http://innovatemotorsports.com/products/lm2.php
The Innovate is not perfect (I wish it sampling rate was much faster, for instance) but I think it is an invaluable device. We also added the optional MAP sensor and the Fuel Pressure sensor. The RPM signal can be picked up from one of the coil packs. As such, Terry has a real-time display always in the car but also has the ability to hit a little red button for recording. Almost every Mile pass that Apollo made we datalogged and it is written to a little SD card. Place the card in your computer and use their software and you can re-play the files. We were able to see each of Terry's shift points, his shift speed, boost pressure, RPM, fuel pressure, and a/f ratios. Pretty slick. Like I said, it is not without its faults, but it works well.
AlohaGT elected to go a slightly different route. We had previously installed FreeFlyers boost gauge in his car and with the install of the TT's, we added FreeFlyer's (Autometer guts) A/F gauge. So, right there in the dash, Kelvin can glance at either gauge to insure boost pressure and/or A/f are consistent for the conditions. Both of these gauges have provision for datalogging should he want to add that later.
These are provided as ideas/alternatives for consideration. There is probably other alternatives available as well.
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2112
Blue/white 06'
I think Fubar may be able to recoup some of his investment by selling a complete kit or even just particular components like the fuel rails or pump mounts.
I know I have R&D'd some projects over the years and though my particular market wasn't big (Ford 429/460 Timing cover/Marine motor mounts and McIntosh stereo handles) I did recoup a bit of the cost by selling a few to like minded people.
Just a thought. :biggrin
Sure there is. This is a link to a gauge I had in my NSX years ago. It has a "peak hold" feature that you can display (with a button push) anytime.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ATM-4377/
- Aug 25, 2006
- 4,436
Now I am not an advocate of the boost-a-pump for some of the reasons as shared by you and yet I also understand that the phenominal project as created by Fubar to completely redesign the fuel management system is daunting to many.
This being said the the boost-a-pumps have been used with the TT setups as well as Whipple'd gal with what I understand to be great success. Torrie for example has had one with one related issues since his gal became TT'd.
All the best
Shadowman
Fast Freddy
GPS'D 225 MPH
soroush
Ford Gt Owner
- Aug 8, 2007
- 5,256
I agree with you both(fuba and nota4re) at this power level you need to have a egt gauge visible at all times.
as for the BAP failing, all that will happen is that they wont amplify the voltage signal going to the pumps. so the pumps will work as they do normally, however if you are banking on the bap to deliver the extra fuel under full boost then you might have a problem, thats why an egt gauge will be worth about 30K if you dont have one!
as for the BAP failing, all that will happen is that they wont amplify the voltage signal going to the pumps. so the pumps will work as they do normally, however if you are banking on the bap to deliver the extra fuel under full boost then you might have a problem, thats why an egt gauge will be worth about 30K if you dont have one!