- Dec 28, 2006
- 273
The end of muscle cars?
- Thread starter Quickdraw
- Start date
FlorIdaho Chris
Yeah, I've got one.
Nah, don't buy it. They said this back in the 70's with the first oil crunch and the then new emissions regs. Look where we are today.
Where there is a demand and a dollar to be made, there will always be innovation and product. I'm not worried.
Where there is a demand and a dollar to be made, there will always be innovation and product. I'm not worried.
Yeah, but look where we were from 74' to the early 90's.
Never underestimate the power of the government to ruin things, especially now.
Neilda
GT Owner
Europe is probably ahead of the US in terms of having an interfereing, 'mummy knows best' type of Government. There is more tax being levied against large engined cars and the belief that if you own a petrol engine then lesbian bearded people in wigwams who live on lentils and cuddle baby foxes will choke to death on your fumes as you drive by.
If, on the other hand, small smiling chipmunks come out of your exhaust pipes, then you get a tax rebate.
I'm glad to report that despite the best efforts of the militant wing of the weirdie beardie brigade, people still drive Bentleys, Astons, Range Rovers and other evil devil machines. Whilst I feel melted by hate as I drive along in my cars - it's only in left wing areas.
Keep the faith! :biggrin
If, on the other hand, small smiling chipmunks come out of your exhaust pipes, then you get a tax rebate.
I'm glad to report that despite the best efforts of the militant wing of the weirdie beardie brigade, people still drive Bentleys, Astons, Range Rovers and other evil devil machines. Whilst I feel melted by hate as I drive along in my cars - it's only in left wing areas.
Keep the faith! :biggrin
BlackICE
GT Owner
+1
The government combined with the Eco-nuts will drive high performance cars sales into a niche market. It really will become yet another tax on the "rich." The sales of high performance cars sold will decline and the prices and profit margins will increase. Just as in the past, the auto companies will be selling eco-cars at very low profit margins, or at a loss while hopefully making up the margins on the gas guzzlers. The "rich' that buy the, high margin, high performance gas guzzlers will subsiding the person buying eco-cars. The high profits on the gas guzzlers will only exist, because the government has limited the production via CAFE standards.
The real solution is not to have cafe mpg standards at all, but let the market place decide. As gas prices go higher more and more people will choose high mileage cars. If one wants to accelerate the process, increase the gas taxes. Now that will never happen because the politicians cannot get elected touting that!
The government combined with the Eco-nuts will drive high performance cars sales into a niche market. It really will become yet another tax on the "rich." The sales of high performance cars sold will decline and the prices and profit margins will increase. Just as in the past, the auto companies will be selling eco-cars at very low profit margins, or at a loss while hopefully making up the margins on the gas guzzlers. The "rich' that buy the, high margin, high performance gas guzzlers will subsiding the person buying eco-cars. The high profits on the gas guzzlers will only exist, because the government has limited the production via CAFE standards.
The real solution is not to have cafe mpg standards at all, but let the market place decide. As gas prices go higher more and more people will choose high mileage cars. If one wants to accelerate the process, increase the gas taxes. Now that will never happen because the politicians cannot get elected touting that!
Joehand1
Tungsten GT Owner
God I hope your right Neil. I well remember though how performance was snuffed out here in the states in the early 70s by those nasty catalytic converters.....:frown
A new Honda Civic is faster than a 82 Vette....
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427Aggie
GT Owner
What I posted in the other thread on this
Well with the current standard at what 24? I think you will see alot more of the high MPG cars on the floors for people to buy. What that means is fewer trucks and SUV's along with sports cars..that means higher prices for them and higher dealer markups because you will have fewer cars with more buyers.
I could also see this really helping stuff like the resto mod business.
Well with the current standard at what 24? I think you will see alot more of the high MPG cars on the floors for people to buy. What that means is fewer trucks and SUV's along with sports cars..that means higher prices for them and higher dealer markups because you will have fewer cars with more buyers.
I could also see this really helping stuff like the resto mod business.
FlorIdaho Chris
Yeah, I've got one.
That is true. Those were sure the Automotive Dark Ages. At least we got through it.
I for one would support a big jump in the gas tax, and then let the market determine fuel economy and vehicle performance. Fuel is still a relative bargain in my book. I am not alone in this belief given how people have voted with their pocketbooks. Witness the total inelastic nature of fuel demand with significant price movements over the past year.
H
HHGT
Guest
By then Muscle Cars will be made in China under a different label. The only thing we will be contending with is the Lead used in the paint......
You know that's never gonna happen. Ever. At least the Europeans have committed to parting with their income for the greater good. Here I'm always absolutely baffled at the way people approach cheap fuel as some god given right. We want all the environmental benefit, all the cheap fuel, all the fuel economy, and all the SUV's. Oh yeah, and stick the domestic auto industry with a $120 billion bill over the next 10 years on our behalf to make some compromise happen. Evil corporations can handle it, because we all know corporations are run by robots on George Bush's behalf :rolleyes
I don't think this mess will kill all fast cars, but I think it will kill mass produced fast cars. Some of the engines in the Ford pipeline have already been a victim of this. Very, very recently. Between satiating Washington's demand for safer (i.e heavier) cars, and the impending increases in federal fuel standards, some cool stuff has been inching towards the chopping block.
Light, safe, cheap. Pick two. This is a concept lost on Washington.
BlackICE
GT Owner
An increase in the gas tax is the smart thing to do if the goals of the country are to conserve oil, lowering the dependence on imported oil and lowering greenhouse gasses to boot. There will be pains and adjustments to the economy, but the free market will make the adjustments without government interference. Why not increase taxes by 10 cents per gallon, every 3 months (really all energy products derived from oil), until oil consumption reaches the desired target. This a lot better than paying for subsidies for ethanol fuels and solar power. Let the marketplace decide if a competing technology is competitive! I bet nuclear power will come back strong if this plan is put into place. However none of presidential candidates are proposing to do something like this and never will!
californiacuda
GT Owner
- Oct 21, 2005
- 919
The number of high performance cars sold is minuscule compared to the overall number of cars sold. The hippie/anarchists continue to fool the population into believing that a few Vipers/Corvettes sold will kill the plant that has been around for billions of years.
In 1985 Time magazine stated that AIDS would soon be in 30% of the US population and we would all be affected. What happened?
The hydrocarbon/earth warming BS will be forgotten in 10 years when some other stupid, irrational giant fear will appear.
In 1985 Time magazine stated that AIDS would soon be in 30% of the US population and we would all be affected. What happened?
The hydrocarbon/earth warming BS will be forgotten in 10 years when some other stupid, irrational giant fear will appear.
somelee
GT Owner
I for one am most concerned with the amount of energy spent/wasted on reality TV shows. Thats where the focus on regulation should be IMO........
KMCBOSS
RED GT owner
I don't think Ford GM and Chrysler can park all their unique products i.e. muscle cars, trucks, special projects and head down the econobox road. toyoda, honda and nissan would bury them. Ford GM and Chrysler can't ignor the econobox segment of the car market but that is not where their strength lies - IMHO. Somehow they have to figure out a way to compete across the market spectrum.
B O N Y
MODERATOR & FGT OWNER
some of us have been down this road before... last time it was the energy crisis, insurance companies and government. How many folks remember when it was illegal to make any mods to the powertrain. Ask Yenko, Shelby, Baldwin Motion and the other tuners what happened...
S592R
GT Owner
- Dec 3, 2006
- 2,800
Well.. being out in the dark and cold for a few weeks I have a ton of reading to catch up on but. Initially, I am always opposed to more taxes and government regulation. I think that there will always be high power cars. The question is what fuel source will they use. Lexus did something interesting with the new hybrid luxury car and gear heads will always find new ways to get that "power thrill". A few years ago I saw a small rotary diesel genset that made huge power. could that be the start of an D/E car making 500 hp that gets 50 mpg? Maybe. maybe not. The question is ... is it that huge v8 roar that we crave or the 200 mph speed? Just something to think about.
Happy holidays ...
Happy holidays ...
Team Jeff
GT Owner
- Sep 8, 2007
- 559
I'll take the speed over gasoline. I LOVE the sound & feel of a high performance gas engine, but I think at some point these cars will become a novelty for the wealthy, I hope to be included in that category!
Look at what Tesla Motors has done. IMHO, that is where the high performance car is headed.