suspension issue


somelee

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Mar 9, 2007
408
New York & SoCal
I've noticed that my driver side rear is sitting a little over a 1/4" lower than the passenger side. I have the T&A lower kit installed. I've measured from the shockmount to the bottom of the adjuster and they seem to be the same on both sides....what gives? bad shock...bad spring? here are a few (crappy pictures) to illustrate
 

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californiacuda

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Oct 21, 2005
919
Buy or borrow wheel scales and check weight at each corner. Using scales and adjustable coil overs, weight of car can be balanced..
 

somelee

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Mar 9, 2007
408
New York & SoCal
this is a recent thing....and nothing has changed on the car since the kit was installed over a year ago...except the wheels but thats unsprung weight....so why now?
 

MAD IN NC

Proud Owner/ BOD blah bla
Mark IV Lifetime
Feb 14, 2006
4,211
North Carolina
who have you been driving around?

Rosey :rofl









Sorry I couldn't leave that one alone!
 

Howard

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Apr 26, 2007
1,137
Florida/North Jersey
calcuda is correct. Corner balance is the way to go if you've lost confidence in the ride height. And the proper balance is NOT equal weight on each rear. Do an internet search on corner balance calculators. It's a very simple adjustment, but you need to borrow or rent the scales. I checked mine after a "GT Guy" adjustable perch installation and the weight distribution was right on the money.

Howard
 

Ed Sims

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Apr 7, 2006
7,853
NorCal
change in ride height

Somelee - Either the springs have sacked out a little but; most likely, the adjustment of the T&A kit changed - loose? They're adjustable.

Ive been sucessful with just eyeballing the ride height on all 4 corners on level ground. If you are tracking the car get it corner weighted but the eyeball method works well enough for the road.

Ed
 

somelee

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Mar 9, 2007
408
New York & SoCal
Somelee - Either the springs have sacked out a little but; most likely, the adjustment of the T&A kit changed - loose? They're adjustable.

Ive been sucessful with just eyeballing the ride height on all 4 corners on level ground. If you are tracking the car get it corner weighted but the eyeball method works well enough for the road.

Ed

hey Ed
yeah the kit hasn't loosened from what I can tell...well at least it "measures" the same on both sides...maybe they we're different to begin with and now one side has dropped a bit so they measure the same but aren't because of the balance issue?
Well to be honest I have been tooling around with the idea of some Penske 2 ways (not experienced enough for a 3 way yet..:lol) maybe this is just the motivation I need.....the car IS going to Stillen next week already...hmmmmmm
 
Aug 25, 2006
4,436
May I suggest that you measure from level ground to fixed points on the chassis first. I have no doubt that what you see is real and that it is new to you nevertheless isolate the problem before you begin your quest.

I say this because Alex aka T & A Shocks and I have had this discussion because I have had gals with varying wheel opening measurement as such called him. He said that under all situations the adjusters and or the Penske’s need to have the same adjustment on the same theoretical axle. Having seen this situation more often times it is at the rear and every time I have measured them the issue was body panel fit and not the suspension.

The idea of corner balancing the gals is interesting and certainly has merit in the most extreme of situations however at some point one must take into consideration whether they are willing to move something if necessary because simply adjusting collar heights will not make this happen.

Now I have replaced shocks that leaked but never a spring to this date.

Takes care

Shadowman
 

somelee

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Mar 9, 2007
408
New York & SoCal
May I suggest that you measure from level ground to fixed points on the chassis first. I have no doubt that what you see is real and that it is new to you nevertheless isolate the problem before you begin your quest.

I say this because Alex aka T & A Shocks and I have had this discussion because I have had gals with varying wheel opening measurement as such called him. He said that under all situations the adjusters and or the Penske’s need to have the same adjustment on the same theoretical axle. Having seen this situation more often times it is at the rear and every time I have measured them the issue was body panel fit and not the suspension.

The idea of corner balancing the gals is interesting and certainly has merit in the most extreme of situations however at some point one must take into consideration whether they are willing to move something if necessary because simply adjusting collar heights will not make this happen.

Now I have replaced shocks that leaked but never a spring to this date.

Takes care

Shadowman

Thanks Shadowman....
I wondered about that actually ......I did measure the floor to the side splitter just in front of the back tires....and there was a difference as illustrated in the following photos (sorry the angle isn't the same in each photo...it's hard to hold a tape measure and take a picture) . Is that enough to isolate the problem to the suspension? If not I'll take more measurements.
 

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Aug 25, 2006
4,436
Thanks Shadowman....
I wondered about that actually ......I did measure the floor to the side splitter just in front of the back tires....and there was a difference as illustrated in the following photos (sorry the angle isn't the same in each photo...it's hard to hold a tape measure and take a picture) . Is that enough to isolate the problem to the suspension? If not I'll take more measurements.

IMO; no

I would only measure from the level floor to fixed points on the chassis

The lower spoiler, side valances, etc can all present false results

Takes care

Shadowman
 

MAD IN NC

Proud Owner/ BOD blah bla
Mark IV Lifetime
Feb 14, 2006
4,211
North Carolina
somelee..... to Shadows point suggest you measure from behind the tire at the mounting of the lower control arm....
 

californiacuda

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Oct 21, 2005
919
Did you say that adjusting the coilover collars won't change corner weights?
 

cobrar1339

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Feb 2, 2006
956
Diamond Bar, Ca
Not all ( Read few, some) GT's have perfect panel alignment as Shadowman suggested. They used an acceptable range as most mfg's do.

1. Adjusting the collar will change the corner weight and ride height of the corner, but will not solve something that could be causing the height to look diff to begin with.

Adjusting one corner will slightly change the others weight and ride height. Like Ed said, you could make a small adjustment via eyeball on one collar and be real happy. Unless your are going to run ALMS, this is the easiest and most cost effective solution to your visual issue. :thumbsup

Corner weighting will not solve your visual problem. Corner weighted cars can end up with different gaps at all corners. I weighed mine and it was so close it was not worth messing with. At least mine was very good from the factory. Somelee: I have a guy that can scale it for you in Costa Mesa. Near C&C and works Sat. Stillen is nearby and they are xlnt. PM me if you want.

2. Most of the time, folks lower cars and never or just loosely check the beginning ride height. After lowering they inspect closely for a perfect ride height. They did everything the same on each corner, but it did not come out perfect. I have resembled this remark. :wink

3. With the TA kit on my car the passenger rear came in 1/8" higher than the drivers rear to the wheel arch. The chassis points as I recall were within a 1/16" the best we could measure. Tire pressure can also change this measurement. I do not have a RBD. The TA kit is not the problem IMO.

Couple things to check.

A. Tire pressure. Won't close the gap above the tire. But needs to be the same for a proper reading.

B. See how the springs are clocked on the perch. Look at the base you will see what I mean. More meat on one side than the other. Can make a small diff.

D. Next check the gap where the clam meets the panel above the scoop Compare gap to other side. If the clam is also higher on one side at the roof line you may be able to adjust the stopper at the latch and pick up a small amount.

C. RBD Cars. The Clam hinge at the rear is also adjustable to some degree. The brace runs down to the new extensions you used for the RBD. The RBD extensions are pretty darn good, but there are different attachment methods (OEM bolts vs. Kit bolts)and always a chance the hole in the new extension was not in the exact location of the OEM unit.

A small change at one end can have a multiple effect. You could loosen the bolt holding the hinge support to see if it moves down a bit. Tape the gap between the rear clam and bumper panel first.

If this is the case, you may notice (looking from the rear)that the clam sits higher on one side where the clam meets the rear tail light panel. And yes, the rear panel is also adjustable via shims. If you look under the inside drip rail you will see shims on both sides. Some are higher on one side than the other. Indicates panels never fit perfectly to begin with. Aligning the body of a GT seams to be an Art.

IMO It is very doubltful new shocks will solve the visual problem.
 

somelee

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Mar 9, 2007
408
New York & SoCal
thanks guys...I did take a look at the panel fit just now and noticed that the clamshell is in fact out of alignment a bit. Not sure if thats all of the problem...but certainly part of it. Now I need to figure out how to adjust the thing....it's higher on the passenger side towards the back of the car...but it doesn't seem like there's any adjustment up and down back there. Looks to me like the only place to go up or down is at the front of the shell with the stoppers. Maybe I need to go up on the left side instead of down on the right..I like the gap on the left though...hmmm
 
Aug 25, 2006
4,436
Here is an article that shares some data points as well.

Yes; one can make minor adjustments by adjusting spring seat heights however generally at the expense of altered physical heights at the wheel openings.

Takes care

Shadowman

***
The proper procedure for determining and fixing these settings: First, find the existing values using four wheel scales, with one scale placed under each wheel. All tires must have exactly the same circumference (measure them!), and be inflated to exactly the same air pressure. Disconnect the antisway bar links. The vehicle ride-height must be level side-to-side. If it's more than ½-inch off, check for frame damage; otherwise, it's probably caused by dissimilar length or rate springs. Fix these problems before weighing the car with fluids and driver.

The only way to change the left-side and rear weight balance is to physically move weight or ballast in the car. To lighten the left side, add weight to the right side--as far to the right as possible. If the front's nose-heavy, shift weight to the rear. Left and rear weights are interrelated in the sense that altering one of these usually affects the other to a greater or lesser extent. Both should be adjusted before fine-tuning vehicle crossweight. Relocating stuff changes weight distribution, but it won't change the crossweight percentage!

You change crossweight by changing the ride-height at any corner. Once you have the rear weight and left weight percentages as close as possible to 50 percent (for a standard handling application), go to work on the crossweight percentage. Raising the ride-height at one corner increases the weight on that corner, as well as the diagonally opposite corner; the other two corners will lose weight. Lowering the ride-height at one corner causes that corner and the diagonally opposite corner to lose weight; the other two corners will gain weight.

Coilover springs that adjust with a spanner wrench make changing corner height easy. Traditionally reserved for all-out racecars, these days they're being seen more and more on street-driven vehicles as well.

For cars with traditional coil springs, you can change the ride height with spacers or by repositioning the spring within the pocket. Cutting the coils is a last resort because it alters the spring rate (usually you want the same rate on each side of the vehicle, except on some FWD applications where spring bias may be needed to overcome torque-steer).

Very few production-based vehicles have perfect--or even near-perfect--weight distribution characteristics, but if you pay attention to getting the weight at each wheel right, the end result is a much better performing vehicle, and any further wheel, tire, and suspension enhancements will yield even more effective results
***
 

MR2Race

FGT The Velvet Hammer
Apr 6, 2006
304
Northville Mi.
It sure is nice to see people helping each other with there problems.

Not much I can add to what has been covered already.

I like to use a drive on alignment rack. And a piece of cold rolled flat stock as a straight edge. That will span the alignment rack side to side.

And measure up to the cast aluminum chassis nodes. That show through the under trays.
And then make your height adjustment one axle set at a time.
This is a method used to get a truly flat ride height.

Keep in mind a correctly corner weighted car (with the driver seated behind the wheel).
Will not measure well, using the method above.

As corner weight and a flat chassis ride height are common in single seat race car.
 

somelee

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Mar 9, 2007
408
New York & SoCal
yeah this site has an amazing group of individuals on it. Its so nice to know you can come here and get valuable info from experienced car and especially GT folks. Really appreciate it.

one quick question......the rubber stoppers for the clamshell are adjusted by turning the large nut (below the rubber), did I say large nut below the rubber?...careful people!, either in or out for an up or down setting right?

well had a little problem yesterday when I went to adjust one of them down a hair.....the treaded collar the bolt goes into thats attached to the bottom side of the latch bracket came unattached and now the whole thing is free and just dropping down. Does that make sense? how the heck do i get that fixed? The shell shuts still but am getting a "door ajar" light..... annoying. Doesn't look like that thing was welded on in the first place and its aluminum right? sucks. :frown
 
Aug 25, 2006
4,436
yeah this site has an amazing group of individuals on it. Its so nice to know you can come here and get valuable info from experienced car and especially GT folks. Really appreciate it.

one quick question......the rubber stoppers for the clamshell are adjusted by turning the large nut (below the rubber), did I say large nut below the rubber?...careful people!, either in or out for an up or down setting right?

well had a little problem yesterday when I went to adjust one of them down a hair.....the treaded collar the bolt goes into thats attached to the bottom side of the latch bracket came unattached and now the whole thing is free and just dropping down. Does that make sense? how the heck do i get that fixed? The shell shuts still but am getting a "door ajar" light..... annoying. Doesn't look like that thing was welded on in the first place and its aluminum right? sucks. :frown

First of all you do not turn the nut but rather the bump stop; in any case it does not matter if you do the following;

Simply replace them with the late style 06 springs which use a nut on the underside and you will be fine; no worries and no fix needed.

Takes care

Shadowman
 

MAD IN NC

Proud Owner/ BOD blah bla
Mark IV Lifetime
Feb 14, 2006
4,211
North Carolina
The part number and price from Torrie for the "2006 SPRING bump stops" was:

6G7Z-6343128-A @ $15.22ea. You'll need 2 plus 2- 6mm nuts and lock washers

I bought them from Torrie at
www.FastPartsNetwork.com
 
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somelee

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Mar 9, 2007
408
New York & SoCal
you guys rock....thanks....the bump stop didn't move AT ALL so thats why I thought the whole threaded assembly turned....anyway my bad I guess. I did adjust the hinge a hair to get rid of the "door ajar" light.

I'll see if Torrie's got any of these.