SCT tune

[rick430]

Has anyone done just the sct tune without any other mods.Was on the Kenne Bell site and see the claim of 35 hp to stock motor. Is this the same tune as accufab and D'Agostino flash units. Is it easy to Install directions ect.

 

[EasyEric]

Rick,

I've asked the same question in the past but have not yet recieved any feedback from the forum members yet.

Eric

 

[lthlvpr]

Yes, you can do an SCT tune on a stock car and get a seat of the pants difference. The stock tune is very conservative and the car runs pig rich (actually too rich in my mind), especially if you live in a state with 92+octane. Some timing helps too, but gains are noticeable.

 

[B O N Y]

Maybe THE GT GUYS can answer. I have the SCT control unit, it was part of the Heffner tune and pulley. As I understand it SCT has a software program that various tuners modify. I hope I am correct, this is not my area of expertise.

 

[californiacuda]

One of the difficulties for tunning Ford vehicles is that there is not a piggy back, or stand alone engine control unit that allows freedom for tuning the engine but also controlling the other computer directed features of the the vehicle such as the gauges, abs, etc. For example Heffner uses an AEM unit to tune the Viper engne that runs all the other computer controls but allows much felxibility to tune the engine.

The SCT unit essentially hacks portions of the Ford eecv computer code allowing some changes in how the engine runs. The changes are somewhat convoluted and restrictive because there are thousands of line of code and when a change is make to one portion of the code its often difficult to know what gets changed in other parts.

Any licensed SCT tunner can make an almost infinite number of timing curve, fuel enrichment, fan temp switch activation, injector pulse width, injector duty cycle changes. I can't speak for Heffner or Kenne bell or any other tunner but its is possible that the program that is sold by each company is different and unique. Additionally a SCT reflash from company x that was done last year may have been improved and be different from the tune received from the same company today.

AEM stopped making units for the Fords in 95, if anybody knows of a good piggy back or stand alone unit for the GT's, please let us know.

 

[nota4re]

Man, 'cuda, I couldn't disagree with you more! The level of detail that we have through SCT to change parameters in the computer - without resorting to a piggyback is just amazing and far superior to virtually anything else out there. I know the guys over at AEM and the reason they stopped making a stand-alone for the Ford was exactly because there is no market - because the Ford computer has been so reverse-engineered. I came from the piggy-back world and, trust me, what we have via the SCT is far, far, better.

In summary:

An open or reverse-engineered OEM ECU = The cat's meow.
Stand-alone replacement (aka AEM) = A distant second for a street-driven car
Piggy-back = when no other means are possible

 

[tmcphail]

Everyone needs to understand that the XCal 2 flashers most have start off blank and sold to SCT dealers. So the unit itself is nothing more then a flasher / datalogger. The important part to remember here and what matters most is the competenecy of the guy who builds the calibrations for the tuner. I would suggest anyone interested in getting an Xcal 2 ask out here for a customer perspective to find out who knows how to build files for these cars properly.

Most all of us that do this for a living start of with the stock calibration then build from there based on the modification list and input on what the customer wants / needs. There is a lot involved in doing this right, something I know a little bit about. :biggrin

 

[EasyEric]

The question still remains: Does anyone have first hand experience with the Kenne Bell flash tuner sold on their site?

Specifically, has anyone used the Kenne Bell tune on a bone stock GT and if so, what are your observations? Note I said "bone stock". Tunes done as part of pulley and other mods are not relevant to me at this time (maybe later though).

Eric

 

[B O N Y]

Here is my question, I have the unit, can I loan it to another GT owner and give him my Heffner tune, or is it protected?

 

[MAD IN NC]

El Bono, as I've been told the SCT unit is married to your car. Once you connect and download the "original flash" to the unit you can only upload the modified program to the car the original load is taken from..

To move it to a different car - you have to basically reset the unit and re-initalize on the other car thus loosing the "tune"

If I wrong - somebody tell me please....

 

[dbk]

You's right mr. dobbs.

SCT would lose a whole buncha business if it were any other way...

 

[AMB]

Sct Tune

I have the SCT Advantage III Software, and tune my 03 KB Cobra and 06 Ford GT. If I can help anybody, let me know.

 

[californiacuda]

I'm not a tuner, but here goes. Most of the time when an engine is modified to make substantially more hp than stock, the computer is asked to run the car far beyond its intended purpose.

Most of the tuners who I have worked with move away from a maf application to speed density. Putting more than twice as much air down the throat of the engine, metering it accurately, and have the computer make sense out of it is a challenge. I know that there are oversized mafs and maf extenders, but they are patches to try to work with what's there.

A speed density system such as Fast or Motec doesn't meter air but uses throttle possion sensor, engine load, rpms, etc, and the tuner builds tables of data for the computer to use for injector duty cyle, etc.

My observation has been that it's much easier to control the engine functions for high hp application using speed density method.

I'm open to anybody else's thoughts or observation.

 

[analogdesigner]

SCT control unit

'cuda,

I had purchased an SCT control unit by a tuner back east. I had specified all of the updates to my engine setup, along with use of 91 octane fuel. I had also asked to set the timing "conservative," meaning about 2 degrees less than his recommended tune for my setup. The problem is that my friend and I could hear detonation at maximum engine load while driving on the highway. I reloaded (reflashed) the factory "stock" setup and it was fine, no more detonation. In my opinion, when you can hear the engine rattling, then the detonation is severe...

I don't understand how a tuner can come up with a recipe that keeps everything operating safely under adverse conditions, such as high engine temperatures? Doesn't he tune things under whatever the engine temp is at that moment, such as 180 F? What happens when the engine is at 230 F? Is his recipe still valid???

Thanks all,
Jay
http://www.fordgtforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=34

I'm not a tuner, but here goes. Most of the time when an engine is modified to make substantially more hp than stock, the computer is asked to run the car far beyond its intended purpose.

Most of the tuners who I have worked with move away from a maf application to speed density. Putting more than twice as much air down the throat of the engine, metering it accurately, and have the computer make sense out of it is a challenge. I know that there are oversized mafs and maf extenders, but they are patches to try to work with what's there.

A speed density system such as Fast or Motec doesn't meter air but uses throttle possion sensor, engine load, rpms, etc, and the tuner builds tables of data for the computer to use for injector duty cyle, etc.

My observation has been that it's much easier to control the engine functions for high hp application using speed density method.

I'm open to anybody else's thoughts or observation.

 

[tmcphail]

Consult the source on that. KB should be able to outline the basis of how they build their own calibrations.

The question still remains: Does anyone have first hand experience with the Kenne Bell flash tuner sold on their site?

Specifically, has anyone used the Kenne Bell tune on a bone stock GT and if so, what are your observations? Note I said "bone stock". Tunes done as part of pulley and other mods are not relevant to me at this time (maybe later though).

Eric

 

[tmcphail]

When set up correctly whether you wish to use mass air or speed density both work properly. Ones propensity to use one or the other can come down to multiple factors. That sort of reinforces what I was stating originally about tuning coming down to the proficiency of the tuner himself. Not the hardware or what route is easier or simpler to tune. The tables built into the EEC5 have the ability to deal with a lot more airflow then the stock calibration. This has been proven times over. My own car is a testament to that. When we find the end of the road for EEC5 a move to another stand alone system will be used. That has not been reached just yet.

I'm not a tuner, but here goes. Most of the time when an engine is modified to make substantially more hp than stock, the computer is asked to run the car far beyond its intended purpose.

Most of the tuners who I have worked with move away from a maf application to speed density. Putting more than twice as much air down the throat of the engine, metering it accurately, and have the computer make sense out of it is a challenge. I know that there are oversized mafs and maf extenders, but they are patches to try to work with what's there.

A speed density system such as Fast or Motec doesn't meter air but uses throttle possion sensor, engine load, rpms, etc, and the tuner builds tables of data for the computer to use for injector duty cyle, etc.

My observation has been that it's much easier to control the engine functions for high hp application using speed density method.

I'm open to anybody else's thoughts or observation.

 

[tmcphail]

If detonation is audible that is a really bad thing and you should have lifted, contacted your tuner immediately and given him the rpm range that it was occurring in and had him reduce timing and resend you a file to upload to the vehicle. There is spark retard based on both ECT and ACT to make timing reductions based on both temperatures. In fact there are a lot of tables used before final spark output is calculated.

'cuda,

I had purchased an SCT control unit by a tuner back east. I had specified all of the updates to my engine setup, along with use of 91 octane fuel. I had also asked to set the timing "conservative," meaning about 2 degrees less than his recommended tune for my setup. The problem is that my friend and I could hear detonation at maximum engine load while driving on the highway. I reloaded (reflashed) the factory "stock" setup and it was fine, no more detonation. In my opinion, when you can hear the engine rattling, then the detonation is severe...

I don't understand how a tuner can come up with a recipe that keeps everything operating safely under adverse conditions, such as high engine temperatures? Doesn't he tune things under whatever the engine temp is at that moment, such as 180 F? What happens when the engine is at 230 F? Is his recipe still valid???

Thanks all,
Jay
http://www.fordgtforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=34

__________________
Mr. Torrie R. McPhail
2005 Black Twin Turbo Ford GT 924rwhp / 787rwtq
2005 Silver Viper 610 rwhp / 760 rwtq
2006 Silver Jeep SRT-8 12.4@109.6

 

[analogdesigner]

Tuning issues...

Hi Torrie,

I did lift, however the loudness of the detonation was very subtle compared to my old '60's muscle car (13.5:1 compression).

The problem with contacting the tuner (thousands of miles away) about this situation is, that it makes no sense to report problems as this because I am not interested in using my car as a laboratory rat! Unless the car is properly setup on a dyno, some of these "hand tweaks" can be very dangerous. Of course turning the cooling fans on at a slightly lower temperature is very safe.

I think that it's risky business doing certain tweaks while being effectively blindfolded on a high output motor. My car will probably go to Jack's place at Muscle Motors Performance soon.

I love to fiddle around with settings or calibrations, however, due to lack of equipment, this one is best left to an expert.

Jay
www.gtsaver.com
__________________

If detonation is audible that is a really bad thing and you should have lifted, contacted your tuner immediately and given him the rpm range that it was occurring in and had him reduce timing and resend you a file to upload to the vehicle. There is spark retard based on both ECT and ACT to make timing reductions based on both temperatures. In fact there are a lot of tables used before final spark output is calculated.

Mr. Torrie R. McPhail
2005 Black Twin Turbo Ford GT 924rwhp / 787rwtq
2005 Silver Viper 610 rwhp / 760 rwtq
2006 Silver Jeep SRT-8 12.4@109.6

 

[tmcphail]

Competency again is key here. You can make very good calculated guesses tune wise for a mail order tune if you know what you’re doing. Obviously having the car on the Dyno or on hand for a wide band street tune is the absolute best way to go. The GT is so over engineered far more than any other car I have ever dealt with its pretty crazy. Also the stock calibration is extremely conservative and you can make substantial HP gains by the tune alone based on this fact without any long or short term detrimental effects.

__________________
Mr. Torrie R. McPhail
2005 Black Twin Turbo Ford GT 924rwhp / 787rwtq
2005 Silver Viper 610 rwhp / 760 rwtq
2006 Silver Jeep SRT-8 12.4@109.6

 

[analogdesigner]

Torrie,

Makes sense! I will try to see how much advance was put into this custom tune and compare it to stock. You are correct about the advantages of owning an over-engineered car!

Thanks,

Jay

Competency again is key here. You can make very good calculated guesses tune wise for a mail order tune if you know what you’re doing. Obviously having the car on the Dyno or on hand for a wide band street tune is the absolute best way to go. The GT is so over engineered far more than any other car I have ever dealt with its pretty crazy. Also the stock calibration is extremely conservative and you can make substantial HP gains by the tune alone based on this fact without any long or short term detrimental effects.

__________________
Mr. Torrie R. McPhail
2005 Black Twin Turbo Ford GT 924rwhp / 787rwtq
2005 Silver Viper 610 rwhp / 760 rwtq
2006 Silver Jeep SRT-8 12.4@109.6