Heffner vs. Hennessey Twin Turbo Information


Infantryman

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Jan 28, 2011
68
Ohio
Preface: I really hope that I'm not opening a religious war with this question; that's not my intent! I've seen the thread on stage 1 upgrades and the consensus seems to be that when it comes to SC tuning, there are three "standards," and they seem to be somewhat equivalent with happy customers advocating each mod path.

In my GT research there seems to be two routes to improved horsepower for those seeking to enter the 850+ range: twin turbo installations by either Heffner or Hennessey. As near as I can tell, they seem to take different approaches (I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong!).

As nearly as I can tell, the Heffner approach is to replace the supercharger with twin turbo chargers, while the Hennessey solution seems to be built around the stock supercharger with the addition of the twin turbos, so you have a car with a supercharger AND twin turbos.

Both seem capable of approximately equivalent hp gains. Anecdotally (and based on company marketecture) the Hennessey approach to adding the twin turbos to the supercharged solution moves the available torque lower in the rpm band and eliminates turbo lag (at least to some degree). That seems to my inexperienced judgement to seem more nicely suited to day-to-day driving (and here is where you chime in to opine whether it makes any sense at all to do much street driving with a 1000hp GT!).

So, experts, can you provide your real-world experience and opinions as to the pros and cons of the TT paths?

As a near-future GT or GTX1 owner, this will be very helpful in my purchase and after-market decisions! Those of you with wives will understand that it's sometimes easier to buy a car that's already been tuned than it is to finagle the budget for expensive aftermarket mods once the car's in the garage!

And here's the second question, where everyone gets to vent their opinion: In the GT pricing I've done there are commonly both Heffner and Hennessey TT GT's available on the market and against all expectation, people who're selling them seem to have the expectation that a modded car not only holds its value, but that the cost of the mods themselves should be largely recouped (seemingly around 75-90%+)!

I haven't found this to be the case with other cars, where people seem happy to get back 15-40% of the cost of their mods (usually without labor!). But since it seems to be the case with GT's, I had to ask: Do you have an opinion which of the three hp upgrade paths (SC tune, Heffner TT, or Hennessey TT) tends to fare best when it comes to resale value (and why)?

Discuss. :)
 

Mullet

FORD GT OWNER
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Oct 21, 2008
2,468
Houston Texas
I have the Hennessey SC/TT setup and can say without a doubt I am glad I went the SC/TT setup compared to the TT route. I have 600 lbs. of torque at 2900 rpm's with mine. It's ran 226.2 in the Mile which is juuuuust a little faster than the TT GT's. Hennessey has been outstanding before, during and after the install. I couldn't be happier.

I've done quite a few freeway pulls with car that have more HP (TT cars) than mine and I seem to get a good jump on them most of the time.
 
H

HHGT

Guest
In this dialogue, I would love to hear the impact on the crank keyway by the SC/TT.
 

Dave Golder

Member
Sep 10, 2008
15
As far as the crank/key situation we have never had to deal with it as we run the stock supercharger on the GT. As far as resale value we are listed in NADA and so is our GT1000 TT/SC upgrade. NADA tracks all the resales on our cars and that significantly helps with resale values.

We originally did the TT upgrades without the blower, but once we figured out how to do it with the blower it makes perfect sense. Same peak power and a ton more torque down low. Durability has been awesome, as Mullet just loves hot lapping the Texas Mile :) Most of the original TT guys we did have switched to the new TT/SC setup. We have done dozens and they are amazing.

Dave Golder
Hennessey Performance
General Manager
Office 979-885-1300
Fax 979-877-0690

www.hennesseyperformance.com
www.lonestarmotorsportspark.com
www.tunerschool.com
 

2112

Blue/white 06'
Mark II Lifetime
In this dialogue, I would love to hear the impact on the crank keyway by the SC/TT.

:pop subscribing
 

2112

Blue/white 06'
Mark II Lifetime
As far as the crank/key situation we have never had to deal with it as we run the stock supercharger on the GT. As far as resale value we are listed in NADA and so is our GT1000 TT/SC upgrade. NADA tracks all the resales on our cars and that significantly helps with resale values.

We originally did the TT upgrades without the blower, but once we figured out how to do it with the blower it makes perfect sense. Same peak power and a ton more torque down low. Durability has been awesome, as Mullet just loves hot lapping the Texas Mile :) Most of the original TT guys we did have switched to the new TT/SC setup. We have done dozens and they are amazing.

Dave Golder
Hennessey Performance
General Manager
Office 979-885-1300
Fax 979-877-0690

www.hennesseyperformance.com
www.lonestarmotorsportspark.com
www.tunerschool.com

Do you use your own exhaust from the exhaust port flange back on the SC/TT?
 

Dave Golder

Member
Sep 10, 2008
15
Do you use your own exhaust from the exhaust port flange back on the SC/TT?

yes we make a custom exhaust with this set up with or without a bumper delete.
 

nota4re

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Feb 15, 2006
4,197
I think that both of the kits are very nice kits and thanks to two outstanding vendors – Jason and John, both kits have very good vendor support and, consequently, well-deserved customer satisfaction.

You have your facts pretty straight regarding both systems and their operation. The TT+SC set-up is going to have more torque down low when compared to the TT-only approach. This will have a unique driving feel and obviously people like Mullet are VERY satisfied with this approach and implementation – for all of the right reasons. But, before closing the chapter just yet on this comparison, the old adage that there’s no such thing as a free lunch should be considered. In the case of the TT+SC, in exchange for the added low-end torque, the SC quickly becomes a liability on the top end – when the turbos are spun up and providing boost. At this point the SC is consuming a lot of power and adding to inlet air temps – both of which are diminishing power to the rear wheels.

As Mullet has noted – for the mile events, his Hennessey TT+SC has shown a 3-4 MPH advantage over the TT-only cars. (More on this in a minute.) So, if you are looking for the fastest, out-of-the-box solution for running Mile events, the jury (so far) is in favor of the Hennessey kit. If, however, your main venue is road course events and you are an intermediate to advanced-level driver, then I think the TT-only car is going to run both cooler and consistently faster at the same boost level.

Back to the Mile events – Mullet said, “It's ran 226.2 in the Mile which is juuuuust a little faster than the TT GT's” and this is a true statement. However, perhaps we can peel back the onion a little bit and see what it takes to get there:

TT+SC Kit: Replacement (larger) secondary fuel injectors + KB Boost-a-Pump and ~29lbs of boost = 226.2 MPH. (Other TT+SC cars – tuned short of 29psi, have not shown the same results.)

TT-Only Kit: Stock fuel injectors; Stock Fuel Pumps and ~22 lbs of boost = 222 MPH

You can see above that the stock GT fuel system is good for about 1,000 RWHP (TT applications). The TT-only system is capable of more boost (a couple of button presses away), but there is not enough fuel volume to maintain safe A/F’s. Simply stated, if and when we ever have a TT-only car running near the same levels of boost as the TT+SC cars, logic would say that the TT-only car is going to be significantly faster in the mile venues. LOL, I know, talk is cheap but the answer will come in time….

There will soon be at least two TT-only cars on the road with sufficient fuel system mods to allow for 24psi of boost. My prediction is that this configuration will have the same or better Mile-venue performance as the 29psi TT+SC cars with significantly less boost pressures and engine limit risks.
 

RALPHIE

GT Owner
Mar 1, 2007
7,278
One major difference would be that the TT/SC system must supply the horsepower/torque for the supercharger - thus to get the same RWHP as the TT only, additional power must be generated. On the other hand, with the TT/SC system, it will have a better HP/Torque curve at the lower end - which may account for the equal nature of the two systems.
 

Thugboat

GT Owner
Jan 20, 2009
851
Humble Texas
Soroush, Where are you?

There is the other option of S/C only but motor mods that Soroush (BUT, Will he give away his secrets?) did 220 in the mile with! Also the nastiest sounding GT on the planet. Well excluding the Maytech's. LOL

Just adding a little flavor to the HP search.

Larry
 

soroush

Ford Gt Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Aug 8, 2007
5,256
I think that both of the kits are very nice kits and thanks to two outstanding vendors – Jason and John, both kits have very good vendor support and, consequently, well-deserved customer satisfaction.

You have your facts pretty straight regarding both systems and their operation. The TT+SC set-up is going to have more torque down low when compared to the TT-only approach. This will have a unique driving feel and obviously people like Mullet are VERY satisfied with this approach and implementation – for all of the right reasons. But, before closing the chapter just yet on this comparison, the old adage that there’s no such thing as a free lunch should be considered. In the case of the TT+SC, in exchange for the added low-end torque, the SC quickly becomes a liability on the top end – when the turbos are spun up and providing boost. At this point the SC is consuming a lot of power and adding to inlet air temps – both of which are diminishing power to the rear wheels.

As Mullet has noted – for the mile events, his Hennessey TT+SC has shown a 3-4 MPH advantage over the TT-only cars. (More on this in a minute.) So, if you are looking for the fastest, out-of-the-box solution for running Mile events, the jury (so far) is in favor of the Hennessey kit. If, however, your main venue is road course events and you are an intermediate to advanced-level driver, then I think the TT-only car is going to run both cooler and consistently faster at the same boost level.

Back to the Mile events – Mullet said, “It's ran 226.2 in the Mile which is juuuuust a little faster than the TT GT's” and this is a true statement. However, perhaps we can peel back the onion a little bit and see what it takes to get there:

TT+SC Kit: Replacement (larger) secondary fuel injectors + KB Boost-a-Pump and ~29lbs of boost = 226.2 MPH. (Other TT+SC cars – tuned short of 29psi, have not shown the same results.)

TT-Only Kit: Stock fuel injectors; Stock Fuel Pumps and ~22 lbs of boost = 222 MPH

You can see above that the stock GT fuel system is good for about 1,000 RWHP (TT applications). The TT-only system is capable of more boost (a couple of button presses away), but there is not enough fuel volume to maintain safe A/F’s. Simply stated, if and when we ever have a TT-only car running near the same levels of boost as the TT+SC cars, logic would say that the TT-only car is going to be significantly faster in the mile venues. LOL, I know, talk is cheap but the answer will come in time….

There will soon be at least two TT-only cars on the road with sufficient fuel system mods to allow for 24psi of boost. My prediction is that this configuration will have the same or better Mile-venue performance as the 29psi TT+SC cars with significantly less boost pressures and engine limit risks.


some how I get the feeling that if Mullet was driving a TT/only car and there were SC/TT cars out there he would still be faster! :)
He just cant be as fast as a SC/NOS car:rofl
 

Infantryman

GT Owner
Mark II Lifetime
Jan 28, 2011
68
Ohio
Really GREAT discussion, and a lot of good information. Thanks much to all of you for contributing!

(One thing sure seems clear--if I ever have any intention of running a standing mile, or serious track play, I need to choose a GT over the allure of a GTX1, given the GTX1 roof options/problems!) Having never gone faster than about 140'ish mph (even when falling out of an airplane!), that sounds like a serious adrenaline rush. :)
 

Mullet

FORD GT OWNER
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Oct 21, 2008
2,468
Houston Texas
some how I get the feeling that if Mullet was driving a TT/only car and there were SC/TT cars out there he would still be faster! :)

maybe so. :biggrin
 

Mullet

FORD GT OWNER
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Oct 21, 2008
2,468
Houston Texas
approved.jpg
 

nota4re

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Feb 15, 2006
4,197
some how I get the feeling that if Mullet was driving a TT/only car and there were SC/TT cars out there he would still be faster! :)

I cannot disagree with this.... it's either 1) skill; 2) aero haircut; 3) magnetic personality; or some combination of these.....
 

Mullet

FORD GT OWNER
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Oct 21, 2008
2,468
Houston Texas
I'm blushing...thanks
 

Magic

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Mar 13, 2010
742
Fredericksburg, TX
I cannot disagree with this.... it's either 1) skill; 2) aero haircut; 3) magnetic personality; or some combination of these.....

i thought it was his daughter's cupcakes!

Magic
 

Apollo

GT Owner
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Aug 5, 2006
2,499
Pahrump, NV
i thought it was his daughter's cupcakes!

Magic

That is the real secret, Go fast biscuits!:thumbsup:banana
 

ChipBeck

GT Owner
Staff member
Mark IV Lifetime
Le Mans 2010 Supporter
Feb 13, 2006
5,773
Scottsdale, Arizona
How to blow it.

Gentlemen,

This is a cool thread but there are no "bests" here, just different. Kind of like asking a bunch of guys if the Camaro or the Mustang is better. Kendal's post pretty much said it all. John Hennessey and Jason Heffner are both stand up guys and a lot of fun to boot. I'll add a couple points. The Ford GT engine is one strong unit that holds up well to about 30 PSI. North of that things start to break. The fastest Ford GT by far is the Heffner TT only Peak Racing mile car which ran 269.9 in the standing mile. For best power at any given boost level, the TT car has a big advantage. 22 psi in a TT car will put you over 220 in the mile and that's way below the stock block engines safe limit. Getting to 220 in a TT/SC car will require about 28 psi and a fuel system assist that the TT car doesn't need. You might just find that you like the feel of the TT/SC car better on the street though. I am only certain of one thing, and that is unless your last name is Hofman, no matter what you drive, you probably won't best Mullet at the Texas Mile unless he breaks something. The cupcakes are awesome. Cheers. :cheers
 
Mar 15, 2006
767
I agree with most of what has been said. However, our TT / SC system is capable of making 1100 rw hp using the stock dual injectors and factory fuel pumps (both with the addition of boost-a-pumps). As Chip said the motors have proven to be very reliable at around 1000 rw hp. TT only is capable of more overall power but in my opinion that is only better for an all out Bonnevile / Mile race car set up. I like having low-end torque in any car I drive, especially the FGT. The better low end torque will also help on a road course where you want that power coming off corners. The best way to decide on one or the other is to simply go for a test ride in each setup. We can build them either way and so can Jason.